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are there decent 365/400s for $20K anymore?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by johng, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. GrigioGuy

    GrigioGuy Splenda Daddy
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    Nov 26, 2001
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    Chris P. Bakon
    #51 GrigioGuy, Mar 5, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2010
    That's got to be the one with the roof that was replaced. The thread is around here somewhere...

    Yep: http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138681295&postcount=140

    California wrote it off somehow and despite the fix he couldn't get CO to title it.
     
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  3. 412fan

    412fan Karting

    Aug 1, 2005
    150
    Northern Plains
    I think that at least MO and SD would let you title it, they're pretty accommodating states. I wonder, does the glass come it, does the engine need a rebuild? I tried skimming the thread, didn't find out...

    If it needs glass and rebuild then hello submarine ...
     
  4. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    yup...i'd be willing to bet there isn't a better deal going...Enzo is surely turning as we speak.
    only somebody who has been through it could understand what a monumental task it was...
    'cause it ain't no 350 smallblock...whatever that is...

    all the best with your project Alastair...let me know if i can be of help.

    brett
     
  5. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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  6. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Dr. Dumb Ass
    Ferrari.com. But you know the Italians...
     
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  8. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
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    Alastair Houston
    Thanks, I will make sure its all done right and send through some pics as I am going along
    Regards
    Alastair its the 400GT (manual) RHD No 21341
     
  9. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    400's are just so ****in' cool...
     
  10. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
    653
    Millbrook, NY
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    Alexander Leventhal
    #58 aleventhal, Mar 7, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2010
    Dave & All:

    Yup - that's my car, and yes - I sold it to Peter. I know I should have told everyone first, but I have just been too busy with work, travel, etc. Anyway, all is well with me and I am not selling any of the other cars. This 400i was just a great experiment for me (yes - you can really use them as cars - I put on 30k+ miles in three years with little trouble) that is seeing less use now that my two golden puppies are not puppies anymore. And, I have to admit the lack of cruise control really is an anoyance for long distance travel (I do NYC to country house with wife and two dogs every week).

    Further, you are right - I kept the 328 wheels to use on my Dino (#10704). I do have two sets of 16" tires for the car free to the new owner if he will pick them up (summer + snow).

    As for the car, look - it is not perfect cosmetically and it burns oil. That said, EVERYTHING else on the car is sorted and works perfectly. Ice cold dual AC, replaced heater valves, rebuilt power windows, stainless timevalve exhaust, rebuilt self levellers, etc. This is not a car to buy to show, but if someone wants to use it as a car like I did, it is a great place to start. In spite of the oil burning, compression and leakdown are A-OK, and if you do a search for the chassis # (049773) you will find a thread with photos where I tore the motor down far enough to prove it was just the guides along with tons of photos and stories chronicling my use. Anyway, oil is cheap and it runs great. :)

    In the long run, this should be the cheapest 400i not just to buy but to use, as it has been sorted under pressure that most will never see. If there was fairness in the market, that value would be recognized - but it will not be, which means it will be a bargain for the next buyer.

    Dave - I have been remiss in reaching out to you as well. I hope you are well.



    Alex
     
  11. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
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    Alexander Leventhal
    I would add to the above (and the car in question was mine until I sold it to Peter) that the oil consumption is not just well known but well chronicled by me on this site in great detail (just search on chassis #049773). As for just needing the one head done, in years and 10s of thousands of miles of use it only showed oil deposits on the plugs on four holes on the passenger side bank - this is why I also thought one side should do it. And, the oil deposits only stain one side of the tail of the car, etc.

    Of course, YMMV (and nota bene I purposefully sold the car to a buyer who would not sue me because it smoked "worse than he thought it would").

    I drove this car for years as a car - in and out of NYC - in rain and snow, with two dogs in it, etc. Few will ever have the wherewithal to do this - I did it to see if I could. I did, and the next buyer can as well. For that, it is a bargain. If Peter asked me to deliver it to a buyer in California, (except for the time committment) I would not hesitate to drive it there - it is sorted and all the issues are known issues.

    I think the real problem with this car is that you can't evaluate it as a Ferrari. It has no value as one. As an interesting, reliable alternative to another used car for transportation, however, it is IMHO a bargain - and it is being sold with full disclosure (unlike when I bought it).

    Hope this helps, and Ash, no disrespect intended.

    Alex
     
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  13. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

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    great posts Alex, thanks.

    brett
     
  14. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    Tempting, may be a smarter decision than getting a Turbo R next, rather have another V12...
     
  15. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    Alexander Leventhal
    #62 aleventhal, Mar 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  16. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

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    poor Ferrari...
     
  17. huligan

    huligan Rookie

    Mar 9, 2010
    43
    Columbus, OH
    i am searching for your thread on the 400i oil consumption and the pics you made in regards to that, was wondering if you or anyone could link me to that ?

    thanks !
     
  18. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
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    Alexander Leventhal
    Here is a link to the thread describing how I tore down the motor on #049773 to figure out where the oil was getting into the engine. As you will see in the detailed photos and description, I proved pretty conclusively that the problem is the guides. Opinions from respected mechanics in the thread also suggested that perhaps doing seals from the top would solve the problem for some time.

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=169257&highlight=%23049773+valve+guide+air&page=2

    This should answer the question once and for all...

    A
     
  19. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
    653
    Millbrook, NY
    Full Name:
    Alexander Leventhal
    Hey Brett:

    Is your statement above intended to be serious or sarcastic? I am *not* trying to start a fight - I am legitamately curious as to whether someone I respect (you) thinks my use of #049773 was a testament to the inherent durability of the 400 or a shameful abuse of an object d'art. Please let me know - I always wondered what people thought of my experiment...

    FWIW, in 10s of thousands of miles, I got more "right on" then "too bad" from people I met on the road.

    A
     
  20. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Just let me add that the risk of buying this car from a conscientious and knowledgeable owner, even with the oil consumption issue, is very likely to be lower than buying a car with a sketchy ownership and service history from someone else who is not an enthusiast.

    The asking price appears to reflect that issue appropriately.
     
  21. huligan

    huligan Rookie

    Mar 9, 2010
    43
    Columbus, OH
    thank you alex
     
  22. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
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    john g
    i thought it was great, and with an older ferrari too. i've wanted to do this myself for years now, but haven't been able to get over the hump of using the car in the rain/salt/snow we get here. however, your experience certainly has been inspirational. maybe one day. :)

    john
     
  23. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    Alex

    I think it was great that you drove your 400 as you did. It is a car, after all. Did you still get a thrill ever time you drove it? I know I do with mine!

    Aidan
     
  24. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    totally 'tongue in cheek' Alex...
    like when i told you the jet in the picture was a sh!tbox but that the 400i was sweet.
    it's coming from a guy who has over 80 000 km's on his '78 400 in 8 years...
    and only 2000 km's of those were added in the last 2 years.
    my 'experiment' was from 2002-2006...and included winters and dogs also.
    i've got lots of cars to divide my milage amongst these days...
    but my Fo' Honey was my work horse for years....they're tanks.

    b
     
  25. Cornbread

    Cornbread Formula Junior

    Mar 21, 2009
    584
    Bham/Maple Valley WA
    I love the way you used your car.

    Each individual has the right to do what they wish with their property. Those who judge others actions with their own values, are in this case Lame. They are cars to be driven as the owner sees fit.

    That said I don't own a Ferrari yet, but will soon, and my four year old Black Lab will be riding in it. She goes where I go.

    I loved the pics of your pups in the car. If you have any more of the dogs in the car, please share. :D
     
  26. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
    653
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    Alexander Leventhal
    #73 aleventhal, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That's what I thought, Brett - and thanks for confirming. And, good on you for using your car as you have.

    None of my other cars get intentionally used in the winter, but here is my #10704 in NYC and my old ex-Livanos #13141 in the snow on a "fall foliage tour". :)
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  27. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
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    Aidan:

    Every time!

    A
     
  28. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

    Jan 11, 2005
    653
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    Alexander Leventhal
    #75 aleventhal, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Sure....
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