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are there decent 365/400s for $20K anymore?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by johng, Feb 25, 2010.

  1. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    2,284
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    john g
    if so, PM me.

    thanks
    john
     
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  3. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
    Central NJ
    The last time I saw a decent 365GT/4 for $20K was 1998. If you are very lucky, you may come across a 400iA for $20K, but check it VERY carefully because, post purchase, that $20K car can turn into a $35K car real quick.

    Good luck with your search, hopefully someone will PM you with the car of your dreams!

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  4. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
    1,754
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    brett swaykoski
    unfortunately, no.
    i'm always on the lookout...and haven't seen anything at all in a long time.
    i jumped the only 2 sub $20K examples that i could find...
    and they couldn't be considered as anything other than full blown project cars.

    i take what Art says ver batim, but i'm amazed that they were ever available at $20K...
    but what he says about even a $20K injected auto becoming $35-40K is spot on.
    they are 30 plus years old, labour intensive and parts are a fortune...it adds up fast.

    the second 365 project is about to go through the process...motor, tranny, paint,et.
    it currently has a clean Virginia title issued in '03 and has had a US VIN # assigned.
    if your interested in discussing it then give me a call...but it won't be $20K...: )
    afterall, they're no cheaper to make right and pretty than a Daytona or Boxer.

    brett, 705-435-1990
     
  5. kliko312

    kliko312 Karting

    May 21, 2008
    165
    Spain
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    Graaf
    Peter from Forza motorsports has a 1984 400i for sale, asking $16,500.-

    See: forzamotorsports.com

    Needs valve guide replacement........
     
  6. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
    Central NJ
    That's Alex L's car - what's up?!? I thought he was going to restore it.

    By the way, it is a nice car that was recently used very regularly. It will be quite a bit more than $16.5K by the time it is a nice driver.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
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  8. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
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    john g
    thank you all for the responses. sorry for getting back to this thread so late, my internet is down at home. the car is for my uncle, and he wanted something inexpensive to play with. i know very well what it's like to buy a "cheap" ferrari and do some work to it. :) i wasn't sure where the market stood, so i posted here. doesn't look like he'll be able to get anything decent at 20k.
     
  9. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2002
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    It certainly looks and describes like Alex L's car but I thought that he had replaced the TRX wheels and tires with more modern rubber and wheels from a non-ABS 328. Those tires look to me like TRX treads. Maybe he put the original wheels and tires back on for sale and is selling the 328 wheels separately, which probably makes the most economic sense.
     
  10. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferra...#ht_552wt_1167

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This was a very nice low miles, 13,000, 5-speed that could not break $21,000 on E-bay just a few weeks ago.
    I think the diff. in price on a "rag" and a well sorted car is not that much.
     
  11. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 Ashman, Feb 26, 2010
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2010
    That link has been removed from eBay. Do you have the cached version or details about the serial number?

    There are one or two 5 speeds for which a seller should take $21K and run to the bank laughing.

    Actually, now I am really curious because a quick check shows that I have only one 5 speed in my data base with a mileage of 13K or less.......
     
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  13. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Ser.# 41909
    I agree there are 5-speed cars the seller should take the 21K and "run to the bank laughing"
    I also know there are 5-speed cars the buyer out to "run to the bank laughing" to get his money to buy the car that is a good one.
    go to the "400I on craigs list" one of the last post has a link that worked for pictures.
     
  14. pks41805

    pks41805 Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2007
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    Paul Sloan
    Define decent?
     
  15. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
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    decent is a car that runs ok, no major faults, has a few mechanical issues that need to be worked out, some light cosmetic issues...all in all a presentable driver with patina. probably will need $5k in fixing to be reliable. this description is subjective, but i think the key is no major faults, and driveable as-is.

    john
     
  16. pks41805

    pks41805 Formula 3

    Aug 4, 2007
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    I have a decent car.
     
  17. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    For 20 grand?? One word answer; "No"



    Check the serial number John, it is indeed Alex's car. I didn't know he was selling it either.
     
  18. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
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    brett swaykoski
    $20K gets you either ;

    a) a car in more than one piece.

    or...

    b) a leaky, low comp. smoker with massive leakdown, carbs that need rebuilt, dodgy gearbox,
    brittle wires, rotted headers/centers/siliencers, cracked/useless suspension parts everywhere,
    rims that need refinished and old rubber...and likely, worn carpets, leather and a faded dash.

    a best case scenario on a $20K example, is the above... but complete and without rust.
    and if anybody knows of one for sale, i'll take it...
    we'll make a nice car out of it and a very logical guy will pay $45K for it...and just drive it...
    rather than spend 5 years, season after season, chipping away at all the stuff that we do.
    and he'll have saved a ton of money, nevermind aggrevation and frustration, along the way...

    and just because a car is more expensive doesn't mean that it represents better value.
    for example, the St.Louis/ E-bay car is only slightly better than what i've described.
    it is "decent"...but the absolutely necessary head work alone on that car will cost $7500...
    IF the heads are usable...and a couple grand more would address the carbs, ignition, leaks, etc.
    but then you'd likely want to address the rust, orange peel, mismatched leather, poor dash...
    and i wasn't 'allowed' to drive it, so i'm going to guess that the syncros aren't great.

    it's very, very difficult to find that diamond in the rough...and there really are no free lunches.
     
  19. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, Dave, I did when I saw it on Peter Sweeney's Forza Motorsports site and it is, as you say, Alex's car.
     
  20. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
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    john g
    thank you all for the responses. just want to say that i'm not looking for champagne on a beer budget, so to speak, just wondering if the $20k-ish 365/400 in good running order still exists. seems that it does not. :)
     
  21. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Wonder what the deal is. I should call him. I've been SO bad at keeping in contact with people this past year. <sigh>
     
  22. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
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    Dec 31, 2005
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    mitchell barnes
    400i cars for sale can be purchased for less than 20. i sold a nice car for 15 last year. i have four more that i paid less for three of four. they all ran when purchased. some not as well as others. was a real education with a lot of crooks
     
  23. tr0768

    tr0768 Formula Junior

    Oct 28, 2008
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    maltby wa
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    Howard Musolf
    I purchased a very nice 1982 400i last Hershey well south of 20k. No rust, new exhaust, straight body, reman transmission, brakes 70% all around. The only issues so far need new tires(metric), drivers seat had wear on bolster, a couple of blems in paint. Excellent even compression, no oil leaks or burning of oil, no coolant leaks, runs very strong and drives straight as an arrow. A damn nice car for the money, nothing beats the sound of the V-12 under throttle, my wife just loves the car, that's a plus.

    Howard Musolf
    1982 400i Cabriolet
    Maserati Spider
     
  24. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
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    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
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    Howard,

    If you had to pay someone to do what you are doing to your car, what would it cost?


    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  25. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
    1,754
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    brett swaykoski
    it possible that i misunderstood the original question, but i thought he meant 365's and 400's.
    to me that meant a 5-speed with carbs...but maybe he was including injected automatics ?

    if so, you can find them at $20K...but as Art said, you'll still end up at $35K when it's 'done'.
    and by 'done', i mean running right... valves adjusted, good chain, wires, resealed waterpump,
    no exhuast leaks, good shocks and bushings, brakes, ball joints, tie rod ends, good rubber,etc.

    it has to be right mechanically, at the very least, to make even a little bit of 'sense'.
    otherwise, it completely defeats the purpose...and that's not a 'to each there own' type thing.
    cosmetics ? ok, sure, because it's really about driving...but the mechanicals deserve respect.
    i really feel that as owners we have a responsibility to the marque...to represent it well.
     
  26. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2003
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    Dr. Dumb Ass
  27. johng

    johng Formula 3

    Oct 23, 2004
    2,284
    northern va
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    john g
    yes i was referring to 5sp carb models. although a 400i 5sp would be cool too.
     
  28. brettski

    brettski Formula 3

    Feb 29, 2004
    1,754
    north of toronto
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    brett swaykoski
    Peter Sweeney is a great guy and i've bought many Ferrari's from him...
    as always, his selling price accurately reflects the condition of the car...hence $16.5 OBO.

    "...the car does use oil due to the valve guides needing replacement on the passenger side of the engine, you can drive it as is and put oil in it or you can fix it with a rough guess of repair being probably $3000 to $5000, much cheaper if you do it yourself or use a good regular mechanic. It has good compression so the bottom end is strong."

    yes, $3-5K to do one head...not both, as parts alone equal that value for both heads.
    valve check is certainly overdue if it's been 25K miles since it's last, as implied...
    and the w/pump ? i'd also certainly like to know if the chain is original and, if so,
    does it have any adjustment left?

    then all you need to worry about is the ignition and fuel systems, brakes and suspension...
    and the rubber...because it doesn't look like Alex left the 328 wheels on there.

    all said and done, i'd budget $30K minimum...
    and, as Peter rightly said, it "...represents a very good value in a 12 cylinder Ferrari."
     

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