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Anyone here consider the mp4-12c?

Discussion in '360/430' started by carbonm, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. carbonm

    carbonm Karting

    Mar 13, 2016
    101
    anyone try the mclaren 12c? I am between getting a 430 and spending a bit more to maybe get into a 12c. F has the brand and style, but the 12c has i think is a current super car.

    Thoughts?
     
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  3. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,917
    Had an MP4 before. Fantastic machine, an engineering marvel. Lacking in the excitement dept imho.

    Juices only get going when you're going over 120mph, leaning hard on those brakes and braking at the last minute before diving into corners. Basically, on the street it's like driving a souped up, lowered Mercedes AMG, all the creature comforts w zero drama and minimal stimulation of the senses.

    If you're after laptimes or drag races, it's a weapon and the obvious faster choice, and in today's market man, you're getting so much car for $150-160K.

    If you're looking for all the other stuff: soul, sense of occasion, f1 sound etc then the 430 for sure.
     
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  4. carbonm

    carbonm Karting

    Mar 13, 2016
    101
    Great summary. Thank you. Will be my first supercar so I am agonizing over the decision to make the right one. Love both cars for different reasons. Ferrari is at my heart for design and 12c for the modern engineering.


     
  5. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,917
    In case you don't know it already, Frank Stephenson, who once was at Ferrari and is now at McLaren designed both the MP4-12C & F430...
     
  6. RedTaxi

    RedTaxi Formula 3
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    Mar 1, 2012
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    Glen
    I could probably swap my MT 430 for a 12c. The Mac would be kind of be a dream come true. Bruce died when I was 5 and I grew up with and are still close with the family. With the Mac prices coming down I did a bit of research and they have had lots of electro/software glitches/upgrades. Not saying they are bad but i am keeping my 430 as I can fix/service it myself which is a big part of ownership for me. I might have to keep researching though, as after writing this I want one even more. White or orange, I can't decide!
     
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  8. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Rookie
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    Mar 13, 2004
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    Up until 3 weeks ago, I owned a 2013 12C Spider, coming from a F430 Spider...what do you want to know?

    Is the 12C better in every possible and measurable metric over the F430? Yes, expect one, it does not have a Ferrari badge on the car. In my opinion, the 12C is in a class of performance ahead of the 458 and don't let the detractors repeat all the BS about passion, soul, etc...just a bunch of made up malarkey by lazy journalist afraid to report the truth for fearing a disinvited from the next Ferrari event. But don't take my word, just go drive one and when your ar$e gets planted and your eyes experience tunnel vision due to the speed and corners taken flat and at a rate of speed that you're convinced is not possible AND not having to see a chiropractor due to the harsh ride..Then you'll get the Mclaren experience and appreciate the technology. If all you want is the NA sound, ability to drift and a badge, get the F430, I had a great time with mine.

    For perspective, on the Top Gear track, F430 1:22.9, 430 Scud 1.19.7, 458 Italia 1.19.1, 12C 1.16.2 (less the P13 software upgrades)

    On a side note, most 12C's should have the software updates (free), ask about extended warranty, buy from a dealer, most 12C will have the interior carbon options and carbon side vanes and sport exhaust. Carbon Ceramic were a rare option for the 12C, steels work great. But most of all buy now before the prices start to rise, they are about as low as they will go and many, not just owners are seeing a rising tide because so many now realize what a great car and value the 12C is. And for full disclosure, why did I sell, considering a 570GT end of this year and on a "list" for a P14 (650 replacement) for early 2018 delivery.

    MB

    430 vs 458

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O3WDf46M-AI

    458 vs 12C

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nyGDT8u0ic
     
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  9. jpk

    jpk Formula Junior

    Just this week an F430 and a 12C were driving together down a stretch of road I was on. The Ferrari came up on me screaming, I heard it before I saw it. And each time it passed it just emitted all kinds of excitement. The 12C was like a sparkler following a fireworks display. It kept revving its engine and following the F430, but bady failing to match the energy coming from the tailpipes of the F430. I was even surprised that I found myself more impressed with the style of the F430 than the 12C, given that I always thought the Mac had real supercar looks.

    This is just my impression off the cuff seeing both cars on the road just a few days ago as an observer. I realize it's mostly about sound and looks, but man I was surprised at how impressive the F430 seems on the road compared to the Mac.
     
  10. blkdiablo33

    blkdiablo33 F1 Rookie

    Jul 12, 2004
    3,265
    the mac will out perform the 430,but end of the day 430 is more exciting to drive and it lots of fun to driveand the noise etc,also imo the 12 looks very dated where the 430 does not,if you want the mac i would go with the 650 s ,good luck
     
  11. Formula1r

    Formula1r Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2007
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    Ross
    No way. The new 650 or 675? :) Yes.......
     
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  13. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    I'll pick a mp4 myself when they drop to $80k in another 2-3 years.. ;)
     
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  14. Quilty

    Quilty Karting

    Mar 1, 2005
    198
    Pasadena, CA
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    Christian
    I don't understand why the 12C sounds so boring. Based on that--not on the car's impressive performance--I have no interest in one.
     
  15. F456 V12

    F456 V12 F1 Rookie
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    It's because forced induction (turbo) engines are muted by design. Do they make wailing F1 sounds at 7,000 rpm's no, but they make other cool sounds, pops, cracks, etc. And there are plenty of aftermarket exhaust choices as well the Mclaren Sport exhaust that you can spend your money on.

    Go to the 458/488 forum lots of discussion on the topic.

    MB
     
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  16. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    6,917
    Not sure if I'd say it was a good sound to be honest...the aftermarket exhaust only makes it louder which doesn't necessarily mean better...w straight pipes it could spit fire though. As w the 488 you have to be willing to make that trade off in sound for performance. I liken the sound to that of a broken fax machine.

    I personally do not particularly like turbo whistles or burbles or lag, but again, you may lose sound and instantaneous NA response, but gain gobs of clinical precision and performance.
     
  17. 1mean3

    1mean3 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2012
    396
    The only way a F430 leads a Mclaren 12c is at the opening of a Ferrari parade.

    I'm a Ferrari fan and owner but to suggest the 430 is the better choice is ridicules. I mean truly laughable. The 12c is lightyears ahead in performance, quality, and driver engagement. No comparison. Now if your debating the choice of a 458 or 12c, thats a different story and worth investigation.

    As a car, its the better in all areas. As a value it has no peer. You can buy a 12c coupe with warranty (extendable) for $140-160.
     
  18. carbonm

    carbonm Karting

    Mar 13, 2016
    101
    Thanks i think this is more on point. Dont get me wrong i love the 430 which is why i am here.... but for the price delta of 30k or so I am having a real hard time not strongly considering the 12c. The 458 would be my choice between 12c and 458 - but 458's are still out of my budget and the 12c actually has better performance w the updated engine software mac provided to the early cars.

    Open to other compelling arguments to get a 430 instead. For these it would be a trans that isnt 30k to replace, more indy shops, and slightly dated front end on the 12c, and lack of recognition by general public of the badge (if that matters).
     
  19. 1mean3

    1mean3 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2012
    396

    Again ridicules. so much to say but none of it nice...
     
  20. 1mean3

    1mean3 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2012
    396

    +1
     
  21. 1mean3

    1mean3 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2012
    396
    #18 1mean3, Jun 9, 2016
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
    The issue I have with the trans discussion is that its just not true. Do the research and you will not find a basis for the concern. Some people just need drama in their lives so its created.
    Where are the known failures? Who are these owners left holding the bag of a $30k replacement? There are thousands of cars out there so you would think you could find these people. They would be screaming from rooftops!

    Graziano is a long time, highly regarded supplier to Ferrari, Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Audi, Alfa, Mercedes, etc. They are the real deal.

    Mclaren is a real company. They are the new kids on the supercar block...true. But if they built a bad car and/or didnt service and protect their customers they wouldnt be here for long. BTW, looks like they're doing just fine and aren't going anywhere but up.

    Some stuff you read in these fourms is just hearsay and regurgitated ****
     
  22. carbonm

    carbonm Karting

    Mar 13, 2016
    101
    Yea I dont know too much about the trans... just saw a few posts on Mlife. Overall sounds like a fairly reliable car.
     
  23. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Dec 13, 2009
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    I'm so glad to hear that. I'll tell my friend with his mp4 that the problems with his suspension were just regurgitated BS that shouldn't have happened. And the few thousand dollars he spent repairing the issues didn't happen either. ;)

    So.. when I say "they're the new Aston Martin".. take that with a big grain of salt as well. :)
     
  24. 1mean3

    1mean3 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2012
    396
    Im baffled by the sound thing. So many people on this fourm (458 guys mainly) seem to be more focused on the sound than any other attribute.

    While i love the sound of an engine, the smell of gas, oil, and exhaust. My main focus is the performance and driving experience (Cars, bikes, boats, etc)

    I get it as part of the overall experience but it sure doesn't command the level of importance where it would be a deal breaker. Thats like kicking Penelope Cruz or Sofia Vergara out of bed because she talks funny!
     
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  25. 1mean3

    1mean3 Formula Junior

    Sep 26, 2012
    396
    What exactly are you suggesting? That Mclaren's are more prone to failure? As if all other brands are immune?

    I've ownd numerous cars that had problems under warranty. Many people here have.

    Ferrari 599 (radiator, upper/lower blocks, tie rod ends, leather falling off, water pump) Porsche 911TT (Spoiler rams, electrical) Audi A7 (Headlights failure 2x, radio malfunction) BMW M3 (main bearing) BMW 7 (too much to list) Mclaren 12c Spider (Control arms, fogging headlights, HVAC displays)

    All new or close to, low mileage, loved, pampered. In every case except Porsche (for me anyway) it was a major process to get things Remidied.

    I just don't understand what you are trying to say. I hope its not that Ferraris dont have these issues.. or that Ferrari service is never lacking.

    I'm a Ferrari fan. Who isn't? But I know the reality of owning these cars. It comes with some overhead beyond the initial purchase I'm fortunate enough to be able to as well as willing to bear it.
     
  26. 430b

    430b Karting

    Sep 12, 2015
    136
    I'd lump the Nissan GTR, Porsche Turbo S and McLaren all together in a group of purpose built high technology cars that accomplish the target requirement of setting the fastest lap time or 0-60 time.

    I'd put the F430 into a different category of 10 year old exotics who's speed/performance is outdated, but still entirely sufficient to be enjoyable.

    I went from a 1,000 hp car to the F430 not because it was faster, but because it had a feel and sound to it that could not be found many other places in the car market at the sub-$135k range.

    There really is no comparison in my mind between the F430 and MP4-12C, different cars from different eras for different purposes.

    If someone came to me and offered me a straight trade of my F430 (worth ~$110k) for a MP4-12C (worth ~$150k) I'd accept the deal since I've already enjoyed my F430 and would be interested to try something new, but I'm not going to sell my F430 AND come up with another $40k, it's just not worth it to me.
     
  27. carbonm

    carbonm Karting

    Mar 13, 2016
    101
    What if the difference was only 25k? I am seeing some 12cs in the low 140s and comparing to f430 at around 115k. This is my dilemma.
     
  28. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Feb 11, 2008
    77,618
    Vegas baby
    It doesn't tug at my heartstrings. A super car has no purpose other than tugging on your heartstrings.
     
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