Alonso showing his lack of class - yet again | Page 7 | FerrariChat

Alonso showing his lack of class - yet again

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by Beau365, Aug 4, 2007.

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  1. becker

    becker Formula Junior

    Feb 20, 2001
    339
    Arlington VA
    Full Name:
    Becker Cuéllar
    LH:
    from
    http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/61369
     
  2. vroomgt

    vroomgt Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2004
    2,129
    Brisbane Australia
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    John ARBA
    And of course manipulating pit strategy as to where Alonso starts on the grid of course doesn't effect race outcome.
     
  3. SRT Mike

    SRT Mike Two Time F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    23,343
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    Raymond Luxury Yacht
    By that rationale, lets ban any team saying anything bad about another team or driver, because it will hurt their feelings and prevent them driving as well, thereby manipulating the race outcome.

    Manipulating the race means just that - it doesn't mean manipulating the events that lead up to the race. There is no point and no basis to extend it to other events (like Quali).
     
  4. dan360

    dan360 F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2003
    2,669
    Boston
  5. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,346
    Cardiff. UK
    Full Name:
    Nick.
    +1
     
  6. speedy_sam

    speedy_sam F1 Veteran

    Jul 13, 2004
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    Sameer
    If I were the stewards, I would have penalised McLaren as follows: Alonso should have been sent to the back of the grid like Schumi was last year at Monaco for a clearly non-sporting move. Hamilton should have been given pole but both cars should have been allowed to fight for the driver and constructor points. Alonso got away pretty easy this time. I think the team may get its points back upon repeal.

    I know team manipulation has been a part of the fabric of F1 for ages but this remote control jockeying by Team McLaren is taking it to uncharted heights.
     
  7. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,346
    Cardiff. UK
    Full Name:
    Nick.
    to summarise

    The explanation given by Alonso as to why at the expiration of the 20 second period he remained in his pit stop position for a further 10 seconds is not accepted. The Stewards find that he unnecessarily impeded another driver, Hamilton, and as a result he will be penalised by a loss of 5 grid positions.

    The explanation given by the team as to why they kept Alonso stationary for 20 seconds after completion of his tyre change and therefore delayed Hamilton's own pit stop is not accepted.
    The actions of the team in the final minutes of Qualifying are considered prejudicial to the interests of the competition and to the interests of motor sport generally. The penalty to be applied is that such points (if any) in the 2007 Formula One Constructors Championship as accrue to the team as a result of their participation in the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix wilt be withdrawn


    2 seperate penalties.
    one for alonshole, one for mclaren.
     
  8. Chaos

    Chaos Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2004
    2,346
    Cardiff. UK
    Full Name:
    Nick.
    FIA have cosnidered it as 2 seperate actions.
    one by the team, one by Alonshole

    hence 2 penalties

    agreed.

    however it could be because he only impeded one driver, when MS was penalised he potentially impeded quite a few ppl
     
  9. kizdan

    kizdan F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2003
    5,505
    Agreed.
     
  10. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    May 3, 2006
    10,210
    i love it. they take possesion of the ferrari family jewels illegally are found guilty and no penalty. alonzo holds up his own teammate for a couple of seconds in a qualy and they lose possibly 18 constructors points.WTF?
     
  11. wetpet

    wetpet F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    May 3, 2006
    10,210
    you can think what you want. thank god the FIA didn't think so.

    this really makes the massa cockup more important. could you imagine if they were up front and picked up 18 points and mcmerc got none? that would be a possible 36 point swing. huge
     
  12. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
    23,319
    KL, Malaysia
    Full Name:
    MC Cool Breeze
    latest update :

    Lewis Hamilton will replace Fernando Alonso on pole position for Sunday's Hungarian Grand Prix after a stewards' investigation into a qualifying incident between the McLaren teammates.

    McLaren have also been pre-emptively stripped of any constructors championship points they might earn from the race.

    FIA officials were moved to investigate the chain of events which saw Alonso claim pole position after waiting in front of Hamilton in the pits for 30 seconds ahead of the pair's final qualifying runs.

    The delay meant that when Hamilton returned to the track he did not have enough time to respond to Alonso's final quick lap.

    After a marathon deliberation, the FIA stewards found Alonso and McLaren guilty of acting improperly in holding up Hamilton.

    McLaren explained that they held Alonso in the pits for twenty seconds with Hamilton waiting behind because they were waiting for Alonso to have an opportunity of a traffic-free lap.

    Mindful of the fact that there was only one car on the track at the time in question the FIA stewards dismissed the explanation.

    "The actions of the team in the final minutes of qualifying are deemed prejudicial to the interests of the competition and to the interests of motor sport generally," said the stewards in a statement addressed to McLaren boss Ron Dennis.


    Also swept aside was Alonso's feeble excuse that he waited in front of Hamilton for a further ten seconds because he was checking whether the correct tyres had been fitted to his car.

    "The stewards find that he (Alonso) unnecessarily impeded another driver, Hamilton, and as a result he will be penalised by a loss of five grid positions," added the statement.

    Alonso's punishment cannot be reversed but McLaren have made it known that they plan to appeal against their constructors points penalty. They have until Tuesday to state their case.

    Championship leader Hamilton will now be joined on the front row of the grid by BMW Sauber's Nick Heidfeld with Ferrari's Kimi Raikkonen moving up to third place. Nico Rosberg will now be fourth on the grid for Williams with Ralf Schumacher of Toyota fifth ahead of Alonso.

    Earlier Saturday, Dennis had blamed Hamilton for the controversy and claimed the Briton defied team orders. Dennis had said that Alonso was held back by team engineers because of Hamilton upsetting a pre-arranged strategy.
     
  13. watt

    watt Formula 3

    Jun 17, 2004
    1,803
    Northern Rocky Mountains
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    Giuseppe T Hemingway
    wtf? this "sport" is no longer worthy of attention. nascar is cleaner
     
  14. vroomgt

    vroomgt Formula 3

    Aug 23, 2004
    2,129
    Brisbane Australia
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    John ARBA
    Great logic.

    Of course your NOT manipulating the race by Grid position?

    By YOUR RATIONALE then, lets just do away with qualifying all together.

    Clearly the FIA has a better idea of the rules and their intent than some on this board.
     
  15. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jul 3, 2006
    27,855
    Aspen CO 81611
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    FelipeNotMassa
    Exactly.

    Qualifying is at least 50% or the race nowadays IMVHO. How many races in recent history has the pole sitter won the race?
     
  16. dusk

    dusk Formula Junior

    Nov 8, 2005
    427
    Brisbane
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    Pete
    No it was the whole bloody field.
     
  17. nugget

    nugget Karting

    Jan 4, 2004
    90
    There is justice in the world. Alonso is the same guy that says he doesn't consider F-1 a sport after last years Monza. Well my friend, your actions today confirmed to the world, even the doubters, that you are no sportsman yourself. How does it feel knowing the entire world see's you as a coward. Someone who knows he can't keep the pace of the Rookie he is teammates with. Alonso knows the only way he can win this year is to cheat. Now that the FIA is calling him on it, I think his chances for a successful title fight this year are pretty much over. Couldn't be happier. Nugget
     
  18. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
    Owner

    May 24, 2004
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    Mr.
    This was posted on Speedtv Forum.........

    "I don't mind if you don't believe mates, but here I will tell the truth of what happened in Qualy.
    I am making this post, because I want everybody to know the truth. I will not reveal my identity, but you can rest assure the following information will be correct. I will also clear that i am not a fan of Alonso or Hamilton, but I am in someways tied to this information.

    It all starts as we all know with Hamilton not letting Alonso by. This is correct Hamilton does not let him by. For which the team will later make him pay. Yes Alonso held Hamilton, but he wasn't really responsible. Dennis would do this so that Hamilton would not get that extra lap in. He knew the time was going to run out for Hamilton.
    Up to here nothing is strange.
    The FUN stars now, Alonso was sitting there on pit without tyre warmers. Which means his tyres were could. The other interesting part of the ordeal is that Alonso was send out on Used Hard Prime Tyres.
    Dennis did not allow Hamilton time for another lap, but he did everything necessary so that Alonso would not get the Pole, but Alonso still did it. This made Mr. Dennis furious. For which he went to the Physiotherapist, he told Fabrizio to tell Alonso not to talk about the used tyres, that he would handle this.
    Mr. Dennis still made it to the weighting room to tell Alonso quickly not to talk about the used tyres. This is why we almost don't see a congratulations from Mr. Dennis.
    Alonso was furious with this and walked away from Mr. Dennis, but did not talk about this in the press conference.

    After Hamilton realized that he would not be able to make that final lap.
    Hamilton first vented his anger to Dennis over his in-car radio. "Don't ****ing do that to me again," he said. Dennis replied: "Don't ****ing talk to me like that," at which Hamilton told him: "Go ****ing swivel."

    The Truth is the Truth and its wicked.
    This team is going through severe pain, Alonso is in the middle of a war and he has no army to back himself up.
    That is why I need to share this information.

    Think of it as you like, but if you don't believe it later on when Alonso is no longer at Vodafone Mclaren Mercedes you will realize what I have just told you is true.

    Anonimato"
     
  19. Ricodc

    Ricodc Karting

    Jan 30, 2007
    75
    I think Alonso has caught the McLaren flu because that is the most classless organization in all of sports, and the ring leader of this whole thing is Ron Dennis as he is the most unsportsmanlike person in all of sports. Nice to see that Lewis Hamilton hasnt caught the flu yet.
     
  20. Remy Zero

    Remy Zero Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 26, 2005
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    from what i see, i really don't see Fred or Hammi being on the team beyond 2008.
     
  21. GoFerrari28

    GoFerrari28 Formula 3

    Jun 16, 2004
    2,313
    Ridgemont, CA
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    Jeff Spicoli
    Having just gotten home at 11:30 from my work trip and just read all the stuff on Autosport, I don't like what Fernando did but at the same time I don't think Lewis has any right to complain, let alone anyone here. I think Ron Dennis is an *********, but a fairly honest *********, and I don't think he would go so far as to say Lewis started this whole mess unless Lewis really did; the solution, though, should not have been what happened. Ron has unfortunately found himself in a bad position resulting from his good decision to let his two drivers actually race for the championship. That being said, the stewards' decision to penalize Fernando and McLaren creates a significant problem in that team orders are now going to be analyzed not just in the context of affecting the race outcome, but also the qualifying for the race. The only way the teams can ever be completely sure that they will not be accused of any such internal conspiracy is to only permit one car from each team to be on the track for a certain number of laps during qualifying, and neither cars' strategy would affect the on-track schedule of the other.

    Now, knowing that that is not going to happen, and F1 tracks (except for Indy, too bad) are not going to double their pits over night so each car has its own crew and pit stalls, the stewies should not be getting involved in inter-team strategies that are largely the result of limited facilities, as opposed to clear instructions that one driver should move over for the other. This isn't a case of Rubens moving over for Michael to take the win (I know Boxer Frank, it was in his contract blah blah blah, but you cannot contract for an illegal thing) or even remotely close to MS' valet job at Rasscasse, but even when I said this morning that Fernando should have pulled into the pit lane, if another car from another team had wanted to get out onto the track, then Fernando would have been penalized for impeding their exit onto the track for the last moments of qualifying and this whole mess would have occurred. It just seems that the problems of having a single pit stall and crew exacerbated the whole incident.

    This was purely internal and the stewies need to draw a distinction between internal issues within a team and unsportsmanlike conduct by one team against another (or against everyone else as the case may be). Either Ron Dennis does the right thing and lets both guys race for the championship subject to the internal conflicts that occur, or he chooses one driver over the other and gets accused for not being fair to both drivers and not letting true competition occur to the detriment of the sport. We can't have it both ways, and given the fact that I have been very critical of Ferrari focusing all their attention on MS while their #2 driver played blocker to make Spoonface look so good, I'll take letting both drivers race for the championship any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

    See you all in a few hours.
     
  22. barbazza

    barbazza Formula 3
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    Sep 10, 2006
    2,092
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    John
    I have been a huge fan of Michael Schumacher but when I witnessed the blatant blocking move in Monaco last year, I felt very angry and embarassed. The last thing I wanted to do was to spew excuses for such behavior. It was very wrong and he was penalized as he should have been. Now we have Alonso blocking his own teammate and all some people want to do is drone on about how it was justified and try to manufacture excuses. Very sad...
     
  23. ricksb

    ricksb F1 Veteran

    Apr 12, 2005
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    B. Ricks
    That's not the way it reads to me. When the cars were lining up for the start of Q3, LH was told to move aside for FA, because he was going to get the extra lap fuel for this race. Hamilton didn't comply, not wishing to get caught behind Raikkonen, who was right up their arses. LH absolutely broke with strategy, but he set a fast enough pace to allow Alonso to get in the # of laps necessary to get the extra fuel but Alonso lagged behind. Dennis was furious, needless to say, and I think it's fair to conclude that LH responded emotionally to his belief that he's being told to move over too often for Alonso when he's clearly faster on the track. All of that is internal, and probably needs to stay that way.

    It falls apart with the pit incident. #1, blocking is illegal and will be penalized. Alonso probably isn't at the back of the grid only because 1) the infraction was against his teammate and 2) only one car was impacted (versus Schumacher's block at Monaco last year). #2, if Dennis told Alonso to sit there those extra seconds in order to thwart LH's final attempt for pole, he is an arrogant dunderhead. Did he really think he could get away with such a blatant act? Their garbage reason about getting FA out in clear traffic was comical...there was only one car (Kimi) on the track and they apparently waited until they could screw up his lap (which is just racing, imo). #3, if Alonso made the decision to do it, it was nothing less than emotional and childish. (He basically admitted the act was retribution, although he called it a "team decision") He could have done what he wanted irt extra fuel laps, but he's like the guy at an intersection who insists on enforcing the right-of-way even though he ends up crashing into another car. I think it's fair to assume that he knew LH was quicker on the H-ring, pole sitter would probably win (especially if LH's faster) and was determined to get pole. We don't know which of those scenarios really happened, but either one was McLaren inflicting a wound on itself. As far as 'letting both drivers compete for the championship' is concerned, read the statements of both closely; each feels he is being penalized in favor of facilitating the other's championship drive. Alonso is somewhat understandingly paranoid about the Brit team favoring its native son, while Lewis feels RD is forcing him to concede races to Alonso (at certain tracks, conceding quali position=conceding races...Hungary and Monaco come to mind).

    Obviously, McLaren is letting this get out of control. At this rate, I question whether they'll have either driver next season. Throwing Hamilton under the bus was a pretty stupid move by Dennis, imo. His comments certainly only threw gas on the smouldering flames of this controversy.

    We all defend our favorite athletes (which is why I haven't disparaged Alonso in this post), but much like the Ferrari camp had to with Schu in Monaco last year, you have to acknowledge when Alonshole or Lucifer is doing something to damage the image of the sport (Sorry, I couldn't help it...you did call Schumacher "Spoonface" after all lol). Never forget that gambling is involved in all of this and anything that looks like conspiracy to engineer the results is going to draw a ton of attention.
     
  24. moretti

    moretti Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Nov 1, 2003
    58,229
    Australia
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    John
    you're right mate, what's good for the goose (MS) is good for the gander (FA)

    unfortunately FA only got a 5 spot penalty, the Shoe went all the way to the back, I am not a fan of MS but appreciated his ability when he used it for good and not evil :)
     
  25. Dubai Vol

    Dubai Vol Formula 3

    Aug 12, 2005
    1,418
    back in Dubai
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    Scot Danner
    Just one correction: when Rubens was ordered to move over, team orders were perfectly legal. Every team had used them, and it was an accepted practice to do so. Without rehashing the whole issue, it was Rubens' actions at Austria that disgusted me.
     

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