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Affordable Future Collectable Cars

Discussion in 'General Automotive Discussion' started by TexFerrari, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #51 Bullfighter, Nov 9, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
    308/328 are one and the same to pretty much anyone other than fibreglass car-seekers. (And sadly I don't own my 328 anymore, so I can comment without bias ...) A collector would likely want a '76 Euro 308 and an '89 328. I'm not a fan of the ABS 328s, but the market values those ~$5K more than the prettier earlier 328s, so it is what is. The best ones sell for more than sticker. (RM Auctions sold a time capsule 328 GTS for $90K+ this year.) Newman just sold his restored but not concours-accurate '79 308 in yellow for $73K. I can't imagine the buyer wanted it as a cheap daily driver.

    Not only are decent 308/328s affordable, but they are the last of the old school production Ferraris, the last Ferraris without expensive problems, and the last that were iconic. As long as the Ferrari badge has cachet, really good original 308/328s will be in demand. The exception may be the "middle cars", the GTBi/GTSi.

    On the VW: Yes, the Corrado VR6 is rare, but mine had valve lifter issues before 10,000 miles and had the worst torque oversteer I've ever experienced. Plus motorized mouse seat belts. Plus rubbish first-gen Teves ABS, probably the same tinkertoy technology Ferrari threw on the last 328s. Moreover, the big hp advantage it had back then (178 bhp in 1992) doesn't put it midpack anymore -- the 2.0T Audi TT spanks it and is better in any way I can think of. The Corrado was a big deal at the time, but now it is old, expensive to fix, not all that fast, and too plastic to be classic.

    On the E36, I'm no expert, so the lightweight rarity may be much harder to find. But, is it distinctive enough that people will pay a premium for it? There are scarce cars, like the Triumph TR8, BMW Z3 coupe, etc., that weren't bad, but appeal only to the lunatic fringe of marque devotees and so don't appreciate much in value.

    As someone else suggested, there are the irreplaceable cars of the 1950s, '60s and '70s, and then decades of mostly junk brightened only by major league stuff like the Ferrari Boxer/308/328, McLaren F1, Lambo Diablo, etc. Anything else we should all be able to write a check for anytime in the next 10-20 years before they're all recycled into something better.

    If you want an affordable collector car, the '69-'73 Porsche 911T is a deal, can be rebuilt to smoke a lot of '80s and '90s sport-econo cars, and won't lose value. The 911S's of that era are already pushing $125K. I wouldn't bother with most of the recent cars, other than the 308/328 -- and I'd be picky with those. I also like the Lotus Esprit, just because they are so much car for so little cash -- I can't imagine them getting any cheaper.
     
  2. climb

    climb F1 Rookie

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    #52 climb, Nov 9, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2009
    Gotta go with the Jap and tuner cars as the younger guys don't have the same affection for muscle cars that the boomers have.

    Supra

    NSX

    Datsun 510

    Skyline

    These are the ones that will rise in value IMO
     
  3. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

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    Disagree there, they are starting to go up already. One of, if not the best American cars from the early-mid 90's.

    And the 455 Trans Am's are already worth big money....
     
  4. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    2010 Shelby GT500 convertible...
     
  5. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

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    Doubt it. Even the Mustangs guys don't dig it. Too heavy....and the performance for 540 hp isn't so great.
     
  6. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Pontiac Aztec ;):D
     
  7. TheMayor

    TheMayor Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #57 TheMayor, Nov 11, 2009
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    It's easier to find out what is collectible if you use a good example. I'll use Muscle Cars of the 60s and 70s.

    A potential collector car has to be:

    Desired in it's time period. Muscle cars were desired in their time periods. They were a dime a dozen with everyone jumping on the bandwagon but they were still desired.

    Rare. They don't need to have been made rarely. They just need to be rare at the time of their second wind. A lot of muscle cars hit the recycle bins when the gas crisis rendered them useless or simply rusted away. (Modern cars rust less and last longer over a 20 year period.)

    Interesting in their appearance. A 89 Taurus will only be collectible to a very, very few. Most muscle cars still have an interesting and attractive look today.

    Unique from the carriage trade run-of-the-mill family sedan. Muscle cars were not the typical Oldsmobile or Mercury bought at the time. They stood out for that period.

    Iconic: Something can be a poor car but can be iconic and desired. For example, the Gran Turino, the Pontiac "smokey and the bandit" car, etc.

    A time capsule: A car with amazing originality with ultra low miles or some kind of story.

    So, any car that someone believes it potentially collectible has to fit at least ONE of these. The more it fits, the better.

    NOW: Look at the 308

    Desired in its period: Absolutely. Rare: Yes, pretty much. Interesting appearance: Definately. Unique from the average car: 2 seat sports car -- Yes. Iconic: Magnum. Time capsule: There are a few around.

    Therefore, the 308 is highly collectible.

    Go back and look at the list of cars selected here and you'll find that VERY FEW non-exotic cars made after 1990 fit that bill.
     
  8. TexFerrari

    TexFerrari Formula 3

    Sep 11, 2004
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    Yes, very few modern cars fit the bill, but that is why I'm trying to make a list that meets 2 more more of these criteria. If I have listed any that do not, let me know.

    This is a fun speculative thread though. Going to make a refined list soon.
     
  9. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    FYI, the Shelby GT500 convertible weighs 4014', has 540hp and cost $51k. The Ferrari 612 weighs 4056', has 540hp and cost over $300k and is not even a convertible;the Ferrari California weighs 3800', has 454hp and cost over $200k. The GT500 has a real-usable back seat whereas neither of the so-called 4 seat Ferrari's do. So it seems to me that the old Ford is quite a bargain!
     
  10. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    because people treated them as disposables and there has been a massive following, clean titled, vin stickered, original cars will bring the money. its Gen Xs and Ys barn find. A perfect, clean, never been recked, stolen etc... civic hatch Si. there will be plenty of hands raised when the bidding comes... especially with type-r and Si models
     
  11. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    I fit better in the back of a 612 than a GT500... but you have a point with the rest. In my opinon... 2+2 ferraris will never be worth the money a 2 seater is worth... there is about a 40 year trend of this
     
  12. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

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    Being a bargain has nothing to do with collectibilty though....
     
  13. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

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    No Civic will ever be a collectible....sorry.
    Just like the first one isn't.
     
  14. parkerfe

    parkerfe F1 World Champ

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    Unlike some of the Shelby badged Mustangs of recent years, it is my understanding that the 2010 GT500 was co-designed and manufactured by Shelby Automobiles and Ford SVT. That Shelby providence will certainly add to the collectiblity of those cars...
     
  15. Steveny360

    Steveny360 F1 Veteran

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    If you don't think it will be collectible then it will be collectible.
     
  16. agup48

    agup48 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I understand what you are trying to get at, but it's also a matter of what the badge is, and brand loyalty.

    Yes, the Ford is a bargain for the hp & weight when comparing it to the Ferraris, but the Ferraris retain their prices way longer than the Fords will. Although I believe that the Fords may become collectibles in the future when less of them are still drive-able.
     
  17. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

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    Shelby has little to do with the new cars. Including the GT500. It's 99% SVT. I wouldn't think it will be worth anything special....
     
  18. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    I know you probably will never convert until you see it... but a 99-2000 civic type R is definetly collectible currently. The Si will follow. Im not trying to convert you but it will sorry :) LOL
     
  19. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Ford GT's retained more of its MSRP than all recent Ferrari's except Enzo, thus far.
     
  20. ztunelover

    ztunelover Formula Junior

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    Am I the only one who thinks the later r34 skyline gtr variants along with a couple of older skyline gtr will become collectors car? I mean this car has a very big reason to be.

    Last skyline to use manual boxes. Last japanese straight six high output motors. They have a very high mystique factor even though everyone claims to know about them. Kids go nuts when they see one. And like I said a couple of the variants are quite rare.

    Example:
    R32 N1: 228
    R32 Group A evolution: 560
    R33 Autech: 447
    R34 N1: 45
    R33 400r: 99
    R34 ztune: 19

    I missed a couple of models but I am a bit sleepy so whatever. They also had solid performance credentials, some absolutely unbeatable for their time. They all earned glowing reviews from just about everyone. They have a very respectable racing pedigree. And they were the technological edge of their time. And unlike the new gtr they were very exciting to drive(at least the r32 vspec was, I drove one).

    The last r32 n1 that I saw auctioned off to australia that was mint with low mileage and a complete documented history with the omori factory (Thats basically like having the Marranello head techs to maintain your Ferrari) sell for over 120k usd. So some of those are gaining a lot of value.
     
  21. Face76

    Face76 F1 Veteran
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  22. Kayvan

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    #72 Kayvan, Nov 12, 2009
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2009
    Vast majority of the cars in this thread are not classics (ie, M3). You need 3 major ingredients in a collectible classic.

    Style: pedigreed house (bertone, pinninfarina, GIORGETTO GIUGIARO), boldness (viper), or pure beauty

    Power: engine hp, landmark design (mid-engine), or racing success

    Collectibility: low production, rarity, and cult status


    Drop top roadsters are obvious; others are over-looked (ie, non-big block muscle cars); and still others are updates of already classic cars (later Espirits). Asian muscle is underlooked across the board (with Supra being the 240 Z of this generation).


    I will list 3 categogies: Entry, Collectible, Super Car



    Entry
    -----

    Rabitt GTI (mk 1)
    Scirocco (mk 1)
    Peugeot 205 GTI
    Fiat Spider 2000
    Alfa Romeo Spider (last yr)
    BMW M6 635 CSI
    BMW Z3 ('95-'01)
    Mercedes 107 SLs
    Audi Quattro (80s)
    Lancia Integrale
    Porsche 928
    VW Corrado SLC
    '90s Supra
    C6 Vette
    Mini
    Saturn Sky/GXP

    Collectible
    ----------

    Vette Stingray '68-70
    Panteras
    Non Big-block original Muscle Cars
    Ferrari 308 QV
    BMW 850 CSI
    BMW Z8
    Acura NSX
    Lotus Espirit (90s)
    Viper (All)
    C5 Vette ZR1
    Jag XJS
    '00s retro Muscle (Shelby KR, SS Camaro, Hemi)

    Supercar
    --------
    Aston Vanquish
    Diablo (last yr)
    C6 Vette ZR1
    Ford GT


    Other: late 70s/early 80s Ugly ducklings from elite/exotic makers will all go up
    ------

    Urraco
    Khamsin
    Jalpa
    Merak
    Citroen SM
    Aston Vantage 80s
    Lancia Rallye
    RR Corniches/B Continental
     
  23. technom3

    technom3 F1 Rookie
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    don't forget that the main ingredient is desirability. you need to have people who want the cars in order to drive up price. In my opinion, there will be more guys my age bidding on late 90s supras (which as much as I am pained to say it, with there limited #s when broken down to hardtops and colors... will be collectible) than there will be on jalpas... why? because the jalpa was a flop, never made it to the poster wall etc... and you can substitute many cars for the jalpa...

    Absolutely the R32 R33 R34 will be collectible! They define a time. just as the "muscle cars" did.

    I disagree with the you have to have 3 ingredients to make a collectible car... the design one is off. There are several Bertone designs that aren't worth as much as say a midyear vette, or a cuda or challanger, or charger. Some of these cars were even considered ugly in there time.

    Sometimes, the most important thing is defining the time or era. Kinda what I am talking about is prewar american cars versus the early postwar cars. early postwar cars aren't nearly as collectible. Once you hit 1950 then things change... but otherwise prewar cars will bring more money at the auction.

    Which brings us to our next subject... collectibility vs bringing "all the money"

    many cars will be collectible, such as a 65-66 mustang coupe or convertible... but the ones that bring all the money will always be the shelby version etc... but just because the shelby version exists doesn't mean that the 65-66 mustangs are collectible.
     
  24. Northwest 550

    Northwest 550 Karting

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    Ford GT ... (even with complaints of a cheap interior, its already collectable)
    NSX ... (a Japanese supercar, alot of firsts)
    RX-7 ... (last generation, not many made)
    BMW Z8 ... (simply beautiful)
    Corvette ZR1 ... (will be known as a "high water" mark for Corvette performance)

    There are others, certainly ... but the above five are pretty safe bets.
     
  25. El Wayne

    El Wayne Global Moderator
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    #75 El Wayne, Nov 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The M3 Lightweight (E36 M3 CSL) is already collectible. Only 120 or so were built worldwide. They are rarer, faster and far more collectible than many of the cars mentioned here (Jaguar XJS, BMW Z3, Porsche 928, Saturn Sky, etc). While hard to find, they are still relatively affordable and will definitely continue to be collectible in the future; perfectly fitting for this thread.
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