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94 512TR 66,000 mile major

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by JIMBO, Sep 9, 2019.

  1. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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  2. tvu

    tvu Formula 3
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    Yes, my mechanic found out the hard way during the first major. The engine sounded off phase. He had to pull the engine out again- and sure enough - the timing was set correctly according to factory marks, but incorrectly.
    He had to degree the cams in order to correct it.
     
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  3. JIMBO

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    I understand and agree with all above comments, but the car was running great before the last major in 2005 and before this major and all marks have been maintained so I think (hope) it's still fine. Timing a Ferrari seems way more complicated than timing a Pontiac, probably more than I can handle. At the next major I'll pull the heads (well, I'll probably be almost 80 by then, so I'll let a real mechanic do it) and the trans and check everything.
     
  4. JIMBO

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    I'm waiting on a few parts to arrive, and I'm thinking more and more like I want to try timing the 512TR, but I need a step by step guide. How to find TDC (I'll need a piston stop tool, my Pontiac one has different threads), where do you put the tip of the dial indicator? On the shim? If I find a cam that is out of spec, how do I correct it? Do I change the position of the cam sprocket pin? Which way for advance? Do I move the belt a couple of teeth?
    These are the tools I have available. I'm not going to spend a few hundred on a timing kit I may only use this once. Any suggestions? I can follow directions well. I think I can fabricate a steel plate to bolt to the engine and mount the magnetic base. Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. JIMBO

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    The water pump seal replacement may well be the most idiotic procedure on a vehicle that has quite a few bizarre repair methods.
    First there is the question of which seal is best. There are several posts on this subject. I found a fellow in Delaware named John DiGiacoma who actually makes seals for Italian cars, Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc. They make a special seal for higher revving cars like Ferraris that he says are a one piece "unitized" seal. He was kind enough to send me a couple. I will report to the Forum when they arrive.
    OK, first remove the water pump housing (two 13 mm nuts) and slide out the impeller (mine needed some penetrating oil and gentle tapping). What you see now is the infamous seal.
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    It will look like this. You can't just grab the inner spring piece and pull because it breaks. So what you have to do is take an old screwdriver and put a bend in to and sharpen the end, then gently tap and bend up the edge of the seal so that you can grab it. It makes a god awful mess. Be sure to put a piece of rag in the bottom of the housing so little pieces of crap don't fall into the motor. Once you have a couple of edges bent up, grab them with a locking pliers and use a slide hammer to remove the seal. Try not to damage the surrounding metal (like I did). I had to recreate some photos because I could not use the camera with both hands busy.
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  6. JIMBO

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  7. JIMBO

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    Sometime the sleeve is stuck to the seal remnants and has to be pushed out with a punch.
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    The bottom of the sleeve rides in that inner seal which we are about to remove. The outer seal (with the spring, the thing I demolished) fits over the top of the sleeve and is pressed in the hole that I chewed up. The back of the seal rides on the inner metal part of the impeller. Simple, right?
    Sleeve and old inner seal
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    Outer, spring seal
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    The spring seal contacts the metal central part of the impeller
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  8. JIMBO

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    The only way to remove the inner seal is to drill a tiny hole in the shell, thread in a tiny screw and gently back it out by attaching it to a slide hammer. It helps to have another person to hold the end jaws of the slide hammer on the screw head. Be patient.
    As other posts have mentioned, be very careful drilling the seal. You want your drill bit to just go through the seal and not the bearing beneath.
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  9. JIMBO

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    Sorry about the double image.
    Now clean everything with a scotch brite pad and solvent. Make sure the bottom weep hole in the housing is open.

    The inner seal looks like a miniature version of the cam seals. I put a bit of oil on the outer edge of the seal, pressed it in slightly by hand, and then gently tapped it in with a socket to maintain even pressure around the edge of the seal. It goes in pretty easily.

    I forgot to mention that the impeller is held on by an acorn nut and washer and a special locking tab with two wings. One gets bent down between the impeller blades, the other jams up against the tightened acorn nut. You first have to bend the tab away from the acorn nut to remove said nut.
    Here is a photo of the seal in place before I started bending that little edge back and mucking up everything. Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Unfortunately the outer spring seal that I received did not fit. The correct one is on the way. The water pump kit gives you a new inner seal, acorn nut, locking tab and large o-ring for the impeller. I chose not to get the spring seal from Ferrari.
    I can't go any further until the new seal arrives. There is also a special tool for inserting the spring seal which preloads the spring a specific amount (4.5 mm I think) so that it goes in straight and does not crack or leak. More on this later. I cleaned the chipped edge with a scotch brite pad. I'll put a dab of hylomar sealant around that edge when I press in the new seal. That edge is not involved in sealing. I hope.
     
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  10. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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  11. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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    Get a BIG timing wheel. Mount it VERY securely.

    Get a Hill Engineering tdc indicator.

    confirm tdc (my flywheel was spot on).

    understand the above shown sketch... or you will be driven crazy.

    spec valve opening is at spec valve clearance... you will never achieve spec clearance.

    measure actual duration at your actual clearance and adjust your desired opening and closing accordingly. The sketch shows 4deg off on the timing. If you don’t do this - you will drive yourself nuts.

    you must be willing to breath deep and slowly, methodically work through it.

    no doubt the factory guys do it in minutes.... it drove me nuts... but with patience it will all come together.
     
  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran
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    take an old sparkplug, remove the isolator and weld in a pin looking out about 1,5 cm. then put the 1st piston down to BDC and srew your specialtool in the sparkplughole, turn slowly the crankshaft in one direction until the ositon has conatct to your pintool. mark at the flywheel. then turn otherwise until the piston again has contact to your pintool and mark again the flywheel. then take the half ot the degrees of both markings and you have TDC.
    but the flywheel marking I never have seen offline more than 0,5 °.
    test valve clearnce for the timing is 0,5 mm.

    could that you decided now to do it right :)

    good luck ;)
     
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  13. JIMBO

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    I found a great post by Fatbillybob from 2002 called "Degreeing Cams" that is very helpful.
     
  14. vincenzo

    vincenzo F1 Rookie

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    #139 vincenzo, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
    My search was unproductive... please post a link to fatbillybob’s info.


    TDC per Rifledriver (Brian Crall) is defined as the start of the dwell period - i.e. the first moment that the piston reaches its peak height. He points out that this is his first hand experience and is not explicitly defined in Ferrari literature.
     
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  15. radlu

    radlu Formula Junior

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    Great work JIMBO!
     
  16. JIMBO

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  17. JIMBO

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    I received the correct water pump seal from John DiGiacoma at East Coast Jaguar in Wilmington, DE (302) 475-7200. $19.95. If you have any seal or water pump questions, this fellow knows his stuff. They make seals for Ferraris, Maseratis, Rolls Royces, Jags, etc. He knew the specs of the seal I needed right off the bat. The one I received is an upgrade from the Ferrari seal, modified for higher RPM engines.
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  18. JIMBO

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    I also received a PVC seal installation "tool". This is intended as a one-time use only. It is shown here with a heavy metal version. The most important specification is 0.45" depth from the outer edge to the bottom of the seat. This is critical for getting the seal in straight with no damage.
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  19. JIMBO

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    Clean the seal seat and remove any burrs (I had many). Make sure the weep hole is cleear. Next, take the metal sleeve, clean up any imperfections with scotch brite, put a bit of oil on the large end and slide into the seal already in place. Then slide our new outer seal into position. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  20. JIMBO

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    Now take your seal installer tool, place it over seal, push to seat tool and seal together and tap seal into position with a hammer. I placed a thin bead of hylomar around the edge of the seal after it was partially inserted to fill in the little divots I made during removal. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  21. JIMBO

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  22. JIMBO

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    Clean up the water pump outer housing and change the large O-ring. Place it over the studs and tap until it seats, then secure with two 10 mm locking nuts and washers and torque to 8.8 NM (I know the torque wrench reads 8.6). Once final torque is applied, place a witness mark on nuts.
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    Water pump is done. To check integrity of seals, take old 90 degree hose, attach to housing so opposite end faces up and fill with antifreeze and observe overnight for leaks (there were none).
     
  23. JIMBO

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    I thought a lot about degreeing the cams, and I agree it is a worthwhile endeavor. So I did it. Kind of.
    First you need a piston stop tool to find Top Dead Center (or PM in Italian) exactly. Take an old spark plug, grind off the electrode and TIG weld a small bolt to the end. then cut off bolt head so that 2 cm sticks out from the plug and grind the tip smooth.
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  24. JIMBO

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    Use your big impact wrench and the 36 mm (or 1 7/16") socket to remove crank pulley. A large puller and some PB Blaster may be needed. Set up a pointer on any available bolt. Attach degree wheel and tighten crank bolt.
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    Rotate crank 1/2 turn clockwise to get piston in #1 cylinder away from TDC. Set degree wheel so that pointer is at zero. Insert handy custom made piston stop tool into #1 cylinder (right front). Turn crank clockwise gently until piston hits stop. Record number of degrees at pointer. Then rotate crank counterclockwise until piston stop is encountered again. Record this number. TDC is midway between those two values.
    My values were 69 and 104. The difference between 104 and 69 is 35 (104 - 69 = 35)
    The midpoint of 35 is 17.5 (35/2 = 17.5)
    Add 17.5 to 69 (or subtract 17.5 from 104) and you get 86.5. When you turn the crank so that the pointer is at 86.5, you should be at Top Dead Center.
     
  25. JIMBO

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    Here is my pointer at 86.5 degrees. My flywheel pointer is EXACTLY at factory TDC marks. All 4 cam degree marks are EXACTLY at the factory settings (note assembly lube on cam).
    I decided to stop here.
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    I know I'll get criticism for not further degreeing each cam, but the engine was running perfectly before I started and it appears all relationships have been successfully maintained during the belt change procedure, so that's good enough for me. I have a lot more work to do.
     
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