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'94 348 Not starting

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by gotofezza, Aug 16, 2020.

  1. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

    Sep 5, 2010
    31
    Adelaide, S.A.
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    Dave W
    Hi all..

    Hope everyone is staying safe in these crazy times..

    Starting to prepare my 348 spider for our imminent (Australian) summer after a 12 month layup, and having a few problems starting the old girl up..

    Battery is new and charged, dashboard lights up fine, but she just spins over (sounds the same as usual).

    It kicks into life if I spray some starter juice into the intake, so seems like fuel..

    Fuses are OK.. Fuel smells fine, and I've added some fresh also..

    Before I start digging into too deeply, the car has been on a flatbed truck, and wondering if there is a fuel cutoff/inertia switch that might have triggered? If there is - I can't see it, or find a picture that shows where it is (although the switch is referred to in numerous places).

    Can anyone confirm if there is one, and if so - where it is please?

    Otherwise - where should I start looking?

    Cheers, Dave
     
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  3. Daniel12343

    Daniel12343 Rookie

    May 22, 2020
    3
    I was going to say something along the lines of fuel pump or injectors. If I am not mistaken their is a fuel pump inertia switch, however the fact that if you spray some starter fuel into it, it starts running correctly, which leads me to believe that the fuel pump is working correctly. When you say battery is new and charged, was it New 12 months ago when you stored it or new as in recent?
     
  4. Qavion

    Qavion F1 Veteran
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    Where did you read about an inertia switch? Does it have an aftermarket immobiliser system? There is no inertia switch shown in the 348 2.7 wiring diagrams. Also, I can't imagine two fuel pumps or two fuel pump relays/fuses failing. The relays are controlled by the ECUs. I can't imagine both ECUs failing. If the engine is firing, then the ECUs are providing spark.

    Can you jumper the fuel pump relays? Relays C & N, pins 30 & 87. Use the battery cutout switch when fitting the jumper wires (as the power comes straight off the battery).
     
  5. Qavion

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    #4 Qavion, Aug 16, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
    Regarding jumpers, your spider should have a jumper plug in the top right hand corner of the relay panel which you could use to jumper at least one fuel pump relay. Or it may be on the bottom left hand corner on RHD cars (?). Ferrari have a habit of inverting their relay panels on RHD cars. The jumper plug has something to do with windows, so there shouldn't be a problem using it on a temporary basis.

    See item 6

    https://www.ricambiamerica.com/car-diagrams/ferrari/v6-v8/348-group/348/electrical-boards.html
     
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  6. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

    Sep 5, 2010
    31
    Adelaide, S.A.
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    Dave W
    Thanks for the reply!

    There are references to an inertia switch all over the place, including parts places selling one for the 348.
    Like here : http://www.my348.com/ but I couldn't find anywhere mentioned as to where it was hidden, so I was doubtful, hence asked :)

    Thanks very much for the tips and links to bypass the fuel pump relays, I'll have a crack at that over the next few days and let you know how I go!

    BTW, no immobilizer (that I am aware of!) There is a little strange wiring under the dash, but seems to be stereo related.

    Cheers,
    Dave
     
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  8. Qavion

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  9. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

    Sep 5, 2010
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    OK..

    You are correct in that the fuse/relay panel is inverted :)

    I tried the jumper in each of the two fuel pump locations, but no go :( Still spins over happily but doesn't fire..

    Any suggestion on what to check next please? I'm thinking fueI getting to the filters? I have the car on a lift, so can get underneath OK.

    Cheers,
    Dave
     
  10. Qavion

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    Can you hear a pump running with the jumper in place? (ignition off, battery on?)
     
  11. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

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    Not from the drivers seat, no.. But I can't say that I ever could..

    I'll have a listen from underneath when I have another set up hands to turn the ignition on.

    Thanks,
    Dave
     
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  13. Qavion

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    Ignition is not required for this test. The jumpers put power on the pumps directly from the battery.
     
  14. Qavion

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    If either of the pumps is running with the jumper in place, then it's a fuel pump relay control issue. Note at this point, that even removed aftermarket immobilisers can cause problems. The fuel pump relays are piggybacked off the fuel injector relays, but these are controlled (AFAIK) independently by each bank's Motronic ECU. Dual failures are not likely.

    If the pumps aren't running with the jumpers in place, then we are looking at a power issue, perhaps within the relay panel. I just hope both pumps haven't seized or are gummed up with perished rubber seals.

    Do you have a fuel pressure gauge? I think some 348's have Schrader valves on the fuel rails for easy connection.
     
  15. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

    Sep 5, 2010
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    Dave W
    Thanks for your responses here :)

    No, definitely can't hear a pump running...

    I do have a pressure gauge, but I can't see any schraders on the rails :(
     
  16. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

    Sep 5, 2010
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    Sorry Ian, ignore the last message, it won't let me edit..

    So.. LH pump DOES run, and when I plug the jumper into the RH socket I can hear the pump try to engage (clunks) but it doesn't run..

    I just prodded the socket with a volt meter, and volts are down to 11.2, so I've popped the charger back on and will have another look tomorrow.

    Once again, thanks for your help!
     
  17. Qavion

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    Interesting. I thought the car would at least run on one bank/one pump. So, from your description, you have at least one (seized) fuel pump :( and perhaps other problems. I heard a rumour that you can sometimes hit the pumps with a hammer to get them free, but I assume that would involve draining the tank and removing the pump anyway. Perhaps you can drop into the 348/355 forum for some better suggestions.

    Was the car running fine before the layup?
     
  18. gotofezza

    gotofezza Rookie

    Sep 5, 2010
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    Yes, it was running perfectly..

    Thanks for all your help, really appreciate it!
     
  19. Qavion

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