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365 GTB/4 s/n 14635 on Bring a Trailer

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 375+, Dec 26, 2020.

  1. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 Formula 3
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    Re 75K paint jobs

    I think this number includes paying a large premium for a “name brand” painter.

    Rent a space to work in.
    Go hire a kid or two from the mid west that are talented and have good work results in their portfolio.
    Pay them half of the 75K and all will be more than happy.

    The money is in the details and the metallic pearl colors are hard to paint and achieve an uniform look when the car is painted disassembled.

    Assemble the car before paint and you don’t get all surfaces properly covered.

    Cut in (Paint certain areas) before assembly and you have tape lines that have to be dealt with.

    Not super easy to paint a car in pieces but damn sure not 75K hard.

    I should say paint is the easy part. The money is in prep work. Lots of hours spent on block sanding. With that said they make products these days that spray on thick to cover imperfections and make sanding quicker.

    5K for top of the line supplies is more than enough. The rest is labor and mark up.

    I should add I am not a painter but have some experience. I can prime and Block.

    Last month I spent around 1700 on Glasurit paint supplies for my E type. This gets me in primer ready for paint. Paint supplies will be another 1700 or so. Glasurit is probably the most expensive line out there.
     
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  3. V12addict

    V12addict Karting

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    This Daytona is now up to $ 325K. It is a good driver and no need to spend 100K on a paint job with those California ridiculous price gouging paint shops. I don't understand why some have to Have a very shiny Ferrari. Just get it in a mechanically good condition and drive the hell out of it and you won't be nervous someone will scratch that 100K paint job every time you go to cars and coffee. These cars are made to be driven, not pampered in soft cotton.
     
  4. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran
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    Hopefully not, in my view the modifications to that car are very much part of its unusual history.
     
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  5. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    $75k used to buy you a nice Daytona.
     
  6. fiatosca

    fiatosca Karting
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    $16,500 used to buy you a nice Daytona. All depends how far back you want to go
     
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  8. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 Rookie
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    did a good used daytona ever sell below its msrp?
    maybe during 1973 gas shortages?
     
  9. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Yes, certainly in Europe and in the USA as well. I know of one owner who purchased his 365 GTB/4 Berlinetta and his GTB/S/4 new(in 1974-6 as leftovers) for less than MSRP from the dealer.
     
  10. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    I have one of those idling less than 10 ft. from me right now.
     
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  11. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Based on some of the replies here, I see many (inexperienced ?) people seem to confuse a paint job with a paint job.
    Just like a brake overhauls, engine rebuilds or complete restorations, there are different approaches/ways of doing them and some approaches may not have much in common with others.
    Basing ones opinion on the dollar amount alone is about as silly as making ones home purchase decision or choosing a meal at a fine dining restaurant for same reason.
     
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  13. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 Formula 3
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    The below is prefaced with a starter car that is somewhat straight not needing a lot of panels welded in.

    The bottom line is paint is a lot of labor in the preparation work. Including body work and alignment of panels.

    Paint materials are the cheapest thing in this scenario.

    Stripping of old paint goes quick and spraying new paint goes quick.

    75k to 100k buys a lot of man hours. To burn that much money to complete the given task the price per man hour has got to be excessively high.
     
  14. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    ... or it could just include number of other related tasks/work.

    Some paint jobs may require a complete or at least comprehensive disassembly of the entire car, including removal of all or most mechanical, electrical, exterior/interior glass/upholstery/trim, etc. and eventually, after the exterior, interior and undercarriage has been properly prepped and refinished, which in itself might take at minimum of several hundred hours, all those thousands or tens of thousands of removed bits and pieces have to be re-installed.
    And if the cars owner is not able or willing to do the aforementioned disassembly/re-assembly themself, all those hours of labor can and should be contributed to the cost of the paint job, especially if none of those pieces aren’t to be individually rebuilt/refinished/restored while they are removed for the prep & paint.

    OTOH, I’ve heard and seen plenty of vintage car enthusiasts having had their pride and joys painted for $1500 - $5000 without removal of a single item and prep is done by quick scuffing with ScotchBrite pads and masking the glass & exterior trim with old newspaper pages.
    And since some reference to “name brand” painters was made, I think several guys like Earl made fortunes on jobs like those too.
     
  15. DoubleD33

    DoubleD33 Formula 3
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    #37 DoubleD33, Jan 6, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2021
    I think we are heading down divergent paths.

    We were talking about the paint job Portion and not a complete restoration cost.

    I totally agree that the removal of items takes a lot of time such as completely disassembling a door. Engine removal wiring harness removal etc. Most of the time none of the heavy line work (engine removal, harness removal) is done by the painter or body man but subbed out to others.

    The paint job cost of 75k plus is just ridiculous. Now a partial restoration for that money is more inline.(sans engine rebuild or similar)

    Boutique painters are probably a better term for the high dollar guys.

    Here in SoCal 100 a hour loaded for this work is good money. Am I wrong?

    How many hours would you have in a door on the aforementioned car? Removal, strip, prep, paint, sand, buff, assembly?
     
  16. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    Here’s my basic, “rule-of-thumb” assessment based on personal experiences as a vintage automotive restoration hobbyist for 40+ years and a professional(?) for 30+.
    Any restoration quality, i.e. complete paint job on just about any make/model/vintage car, but let’s say a Daytona, starting with completely disassembled, stripped & metal finished body/chassis assembly and finishing with it fully painted/color sanded/polished incl. exterior (every panel), interior (cabin, engine bay, trunk) & undercarriage, ready to start with re-assembly will easily require +/-500 hrs.
    Then, you can add all materials like body fillers, masking papers/-tapes, paints/primers, rubbing/polishing/sanding materials, etc. shop space the job occupies for minimum of several months, etc...

    It’s like someone tells me they had a “complete restoration” (on any car) done for $100K, my mind automatically wonders what was skipped and which components or tasks weren't done.

    And just for comparison, let’s take say ‘6? R-R PV James Young or ‘58 Imperial Ghia limousine (see Godfather movie).
    While both have less perceived market value than Daytona, they are much larger, not only taking more space, but have more square footage area to prep/paint/detail and therefor will take more labor hours + materials than it.
    Heck, even a ‘72 4-dr sedan Chevy Impala is much bigger and probably more complex to prep + paint to equal quality with Daytona or ‘31 A-R 6C1750 Zagato Spyder therefor could be expected to command higher price for that “task”, but we all know that for some “strange”(?) reason it doesn’t work that way.

    Besides, shops that specialize in “restoration quality” jobs and charge higher rates than calibers, Earls or Maacos, not only have experience in them, they also have less in-&-out, bread-&-butter jobs running through their facilities and to maintain their reputation, must make sure the job will hold up and look great years after it went out the door.
     
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  17. TTR

    TTR F1 Rookie
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    And yes, vast majority of people into or without serious experience on vintage cars/vehicles or their (quality) restorations usually don’t realize or understand that materials or spraying the color are the least costly and easiest to achieve portions of a quality paint job.
    Yet most assess it based on just how bright/glittery/shiny its appearance on exterior of the vehicle looks.

    Oh, and let’s not get started with painting older/vintage cars, regardless of makes & models, to authentic OEM quality refinish, which should be the high watermark for any judging criteria, but rarely achieved, including most seen at Top Shows of the world.
     
  18. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    Sold for $507,000 hammer.
     
  19. colombo2cam

    colombo2cam Formula Junior

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    looked like a good honest car not remade - in the not to distant future I think we will look back at this as a great purchase.
     
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  20. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Broke the $500k barrier!
     
  21. gcalex

    gcalex Karting
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    So with the $5k Buyer's Fee, the final out-of-pocket was $512k.

    Nice to see that the car basically held its value since Gooding.

    Of course, there was a lot more info (all generally positive) posted about the car this time around, so I suppose one could argue that the value "slipped" a little (perceptions of quality went up a little, but realized price stayed about the same), but there is no denying that the seller did better on BaT, than he did with Gooding...

    I *loved* a lot of the little details on the car; e.g., the lining on the trunk lid and trunk-ceiling/wings...
     
  22. Zarathustra

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  23. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    Strange advert lifted text straight from the BaT listing including references to things in the gallery which are not shown in this ad.
     
  24. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Scam?
     
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  25. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

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    IMO looks like it. A quick google search on the company listing the car takes you to lots of dead links including what looks like a half built site for auctioning cars. Also the ad seems to be changed today to P.O.R.

    if it is not a scam and the BaT vendor or buyer has tried to list the car themselves then I would suggest they rethink their marketing strategy.
     
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