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365/400/412 - how many survived?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Mantabee, Apr 29, 2008.

  1. Mantabee

    Mantabee Rookie

    Apr 29, 2008
    16
    Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Stefan
    Dear Ferraristi,

    I am from Germany, living in Switzerland and I am completely new to the Ferrari world and very glad that I found this forum. In a strange move motivated by the emotions these cars can bring out, I just bought a '79 400A (carbs and automatic) at an auction in Switzerland. I will pick up the car on Thursday and surely will have many questions to the forum once I have the car. I gathered a lot of general info here already such as production numbers of the different models, but one upfront question I could not find on the forum yet: does anyone have an idea how many of these cars are still "alive"? Are there any estimates? In the Porsche (pre '74) world the assumption is that more or less 3/4 of all cars produced are still on the road (or in museums or so). Is it the same with Ferraris?

    Thanks and "see" you soon again.

    Stefan
     
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  3. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed Owner

    Oct 16, 2007
    5,398
    Edwardsville, IL
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    Jeff Kennedy
    Mantabee,

    Across all Ferraris the percentage should be very high. With the 365/400/412 it will be less. On another thread in the 365/400/412 thread there is a post from Tom S about parting our several 365s. With the 250 Pf coupes the question will be how many have stayed as Pf coupes versus being modified into replicas of other "more desirable" Ferrari models.

    Dave, what do your records show for 365/400/412?

    Jeff
     
  4. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    Stefan

    Welcome to 400 ownership and to Fchat!

    I've often wondered the same thing - how many 400s are left? There were 525 365 GT4, 502 400, 1306 400i and 576 412 examples produced (total, 2909). Sadly, I think the survival rate is lower for this series than most other Ferraris - a wild guess would be 50-60%.

    The 400 register (http://www.400register.com/) has lots of useful information (like the production numbers quoted above) and manuals, etc. You can register your car with the official Ferrari site (http://www.owners.ferrari.com/) and they should be able to give you the original colors, etc.

    Do post some photos when you get he chance and enjoy your new beast.

    Aidan
     
  5. SouthJersey400i

    SouthJersey400i Formula 3

    Mar 14, 2007
    1,360
    Romulus, NY (Finger Lakes)
    Full Name:
    Ken Battle
    Aidan
    I have been waiting for someone to mention the Ferrari Owner's site. I have had a total struggle to register my car and the support via email is close to useless. The site says there is an issue with my VIN number and I need to contact the site. I have done so two or three times and I get nothing useful back, mostly no response at all. If I go to "My Garage" there is a car there with no VIN, it once had a picture and only a few useful notes. How do I actually get some customer support?
    Ken
     
  6. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    +1 on all counts.

    Its the website, not you. Mine says I have an "alert" and the instructions say go to "my garage" to read it. When I do it isn't there, yet when I go back to the home screen there it is. Numerous emails have gone unanswered. I glad others have gotton info from them. For me its a worthless website.
     
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  8. b3tech

    b3tech Karting

    Apr 17, 2007
    100
    Los Gatos CA
    Full Name:
    Boyd Bowdish
    Interesting question, "how many are left?" Dave S. looks to be the premier datacenter for this,

    Dave - how many do you have remaining?

    My thoughts guys, a percentage much lower then 50% have survived as cars.

    I have been the ONLY 365 GT/4 at Concorso Italiano for the last 6 years. THE ONLY ONE. Several 400/412 make it every year, all are wonderful examples. There seems to be a lot of 365 GTC, 365 C/4 and 365 GT's. But the GT/4 - very rare. Most say, "duh....who cares!" Well we do, don't we !!!
     
  9. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
    139
    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hi Aidan

    Sorry to but-in on this thread but I'm very curious about the history of my car #18277. I tried the link you posted above to the 'owners club' but the site is blocked. The 400register site didn't appear to have the information I need so I've sent them an email requesting more info. Although my car was imported to SA in January 1975 it could have been second-hand at the time and therefore older. Does anyone know at what number Ferrari 'started the clock' with the 365 GT4 2+2 production ? I believe it was unveiled at the Paris motor show in 1972 but do not know when they began rolling out the first production cars....I guess there was a waiting list ?
     
  10. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    Jeff Kennedy
  11. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    Thats because the pool of cars was very small to begin with.
    There were only 27 cars in the US.
    Since 1995 only 14 of those cars have been seen.
     
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  13. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    I only track US cars Jeff. So I can't help the original poster with his question (he is overseas)
    If you want the info for the US cars, I can post it later this morning when I get to the winery. Let me know.
     
  14. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    Ken

    I found the site OK to register my car with, but I think it has since been "upgraded". There are manuals, etc., available and access to some other stuff (such as F1 race packages, etc.). The only information they gave me on my car was the color.

    Aidan
     
  15. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    Oct 16, 2007
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    Jeff Kennedy
    Dave,

    Have you been updating for the ones Tom is parting out?

    By the way, what is white cab? A relative of white zin? We even have T-shirts that say "Friends don't let friends drink white zin".

    Jeff
     
  16. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    #13 dstacy, May 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    White Zin is NOT wine! Thats pink kool-aid with sugar and booze.

    100% Cabernet Sauvignon. Only a few hours skin contact which is how the light, or blush, color is achieved. See the color in the picture?
    ZERO sugar. It was fermented dry. Not a sissy pink wine, rather a rich robust wine designed to be served cold during the summer months. Great with grilled chicken and salmon. $18.50

    VERY difficult to make.

    Google white merlot and you'll find lots of wineries who make it. The last time I googled white cabernet I only found 6 winemakers who had the balls to tackle it.
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  17. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    #14 dstacy, May 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

    I'm not the "premier datacenter" just a nutcase having a bit of fun. I will share with you what I believe is the most accurate information to date on US cars.
    Here is a screen capture of a spreadsheet:

    .
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  18. Mantabee

    Mantabee Rookie

    Apr 29, 2008
    16
    Switzerland
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    Stefan
    #15 Mantabee, May 1, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Ladies and gents, no matter what the actual number of cars still on the road may be, one thing is for sure, now one of them is mine! And this one will stay on the road for a long time, I swear! Today I picked up my car that I bought at an auction in the Swiss mountains a week ago. It was quite an experience as this was actually the first time (after I bought it, how stupid...) that I was able to start the engine. Well, it kinda started - but at first wasn't running on all cylinders :-( While I had intense discussions with the salesman, my mechanic friend was "working" on the car. I found out that the car was basically doing 2000 miles in the last 20 years! Anyway, the car was in such great conditions that I kept my faith that it was just a minor issue (sparks or so). After 20 mins my mate came back in saying it was all right - or at least good enough to put the money on the table, pick up the car and leave, which we did. A few hours later back home I could drive the car around the block and it was brilliant!!!

    I am so excited and will surely post some more info and questions shortly, but for now and for those of you that appreciate the fact that another one of these beauties finally is in good hands, I have added some fotos with first impressions of my dream car.

    BTW: it is a '78 400 Automatic with 71k kilometres that came for CHF 44k which is about USD 42k

    Cheers, good bye and have a good day
    Stefan
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  19. 400iGuy

    400iGuy Formula 3
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    Aug 26, 2004
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    I got a www.owners.ferrari.com hat from them :) Nothing else.

    Al
     
  20. Ashman

    Ashman Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sep 5, 2002
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    Stefan

    Congratulations on your new purchase, it looks beautiful! Thanks for posting the photos, we are looking forward to hearing more about your adventures as you put on the miles.

    John
     
  21. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
    139
    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hi Stephan.

    From one 'rookie' to another may I say welcome to the club ! I must congratulate you on not only finding such a superb car in what looks to be remarkably good order but for your exceptional command of the English language.
    Do not worry that you might have paid more for this car than you might have paid in the US for example. Nothing is 'cheap' in Switzerland, its an expensive country but what you have paid for is all the care and maintenance that has so obviously gone into this car from previous owners. If you take a look at some of the posts on this site you will see guys that have paid less for a similar car but have, at the same time, realised that they will need to spend perhaps another $5-15,000 getting the car back into tip-top condition.
    Seems to me you're ahead of the game !
    Well done and good luck in the future, you're going to have a lot of fun; just don't get caught speeding !

    Best regards., Mike

    PS: Just for fun you might like to tell this thread what happens to guys in Switzerland who get caught speeding. For example doing 100+km/hr in a 70km/hr zone or 200km/hr on a 110km/hr freeway. Here in South Africa if you get caught doing 200+km/hr its prison.......and prisons over here are very, very nasty places indeed.
     
  22. ricar116

    ricar116 Formula Junior

    Aug 2, 2005
    392
    Bolivar, Missouri
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    Rick Carr
    Et Al,
    1st 72' 15897 , mine 74' 17429, Mikes 75' 18277 last 76' 19709. Maybe this is common knowledge/hypothesis? 15=72' 16=73' 17=74' 18=75' 19=76' the serial must not be sequential with the body style 897 to 709 last 3 digits. Confirmation/Discussion? Dave E-mail me how to get the data base.

    Rick
     
  23. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    My answer is "I don't know".
    But, I don't think so. If you apply that logic then Aidan's car should be #(23)243 when it is #(31)243.
    I seem to remember a thread a while back where a couple of guys who know way more than I do about this stuff showed how serial numbers had nothing to do with years built.

    Tom S. would know......"HEY TOM! You reading this?"
     
  24. 3wings

    3wings Karting

    Apr 7, 2008
    139
    South Africa
    Full Name:
    Mike
    Hi Rick

    Yours is an interesting theory and it would make a lot of sense if it wasn't for the www.400register.com/production/365-production.asp. figures which seem to contradict the Barchetta site. '400' list the first 365 in 1972 as #17091 and end in 1976 with #19603. They even list the UK (RHD) vehicles for both 1973/4 as #17... and 1975/6 as being both #18...

    This is getting very confusing....who do we trust on this ?
     
  25. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 3, 2002
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    Carbon McCoy
    Ferrari made three 365 GT4 2+2s before 17091; 15897 (the prototype), 16291, and 16293. Ferrari made three 365 GT4 2+2s after 19603; 19645, 19693, and the last one, 19709.
     
  26. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,187
    Just to be clear, there is no particular correlation between serial numbers and years. Chassis numbers are/were just allocated sequentially (although the sequence relates to the start of the build process rather than the end) with a bit of Italian obfuscation thrown in. Road cars were odd numbers only up to 75000 and have used all numbers thereafter. Current production cars are in the 160000 range of chassis numbers. For various reasons actual deliveriy and registration dates are not always in strict chassis number order.

    Jonathan
     
  27. dstacy

    dstacy F1 World Champ
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    Jan 23, 2006
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    Jonathan, help me understand what the above statement means.
    I have a road car with the serial number of 10128, an even number. All GT4's were even number cars.
    Am I miss-reading what you're trying to say?
     
  28. 134282

    134282 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Aug 3, 2002
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    Dave... You're not misreading what he's saying. But in addition to what Jonathan said, it should be noted that all Dinos (except Jim Glickenhaus's new one) have even serial numbers. All Ferrari road cars up through serial number 75000 had only odd serial numbers. Now, all Ferrari road cars share both even and odd numbers.
     

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