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360 CS airbox and 430 air flow meters

Discussion in '360/430' started by cm2, Jul 3, 2013.

  1. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
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    I thought I would change my air flow meter in my 360 to the CS/430 unit (along with the throttle bodies), and was curious what people did about their airbox. Perhaps specific aftermarket carbon air boxes have a sufficiently wide output to accommodate a larger diameter AFM? Alternatively, did people just luck out and source a CS airbox (anyone have a couple to spare??). Maybe even use a 430 airbox (which might be a little too short?). Thanks!
     
  2. Carbonio

    Carbonio Formula 3
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    The CS uses the same MAF's as the 430. As such you can fit our F430 airboxes to your car without issue. The only detail is the placement of the mounting holes as they differ between the 360 and 430. I assume that if you are willing to make the changes then you have the DIY bug and would not shy away from having to drill 4 little holes.
     
  3. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
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    Can your boxes be custom ordered without holes :) ? The different angle of the intake tubes doesn't cause a problem, and the length of the exit isn't different for the F430

    Thanks!
     
  4. Carbonio

    Carbonio Formula 3
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    Custom ordering without holes is possible but the wait time would be long. Drilling your own holes is very simple and you would never notice the additional holes unless you were looking for them

    I don't see any fit concerns however if you have any issues we will stand behind the product and pay the shipping both ways if you needed to return it. Just please check BEFORE drilling the extra holes :D
     
  5. X-TNSIV

    X-TNSIV Formula Junior
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    May 2, 2007
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    Hello Nathan,

    Did you ever swap the F430 MAF's and the throttle bodies into your 360? if so, were the gains worth it?

    Allen
     
  6. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
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    Sorry, not yet. I thought I had my hands on some CS lids, but apparently not.
     
  7. Ingpr

    Ingpr F1 Rookie

    Jun 30, 2009
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    Never work out for me. My motronics didn't like the upgrade on idle time and yes "my eucs are flashed like hell".
     
  8. cm2

    cm2 Formula 3

    Sep 26, 2012
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    Can you elaborate?
     
  9. X-TNSIV

    X-TNSIV Formula Junior
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    yes, I would also be interested in knowing if anyone has been able to successfully install the CS/F430/599 MAF's with a software tune?
     
  10. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

    May 20, 2018
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    Pardon necro-bump... but has anyone fitted 430 mas to a 360 and got it tuned to work?

    many doc dyno gains?
     
  11. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    In one word Yes.

    If you want a Longer description read on :)

    Ferrari SAK tool can already do this for anyone who wants it. It just needs re-calibration for the larger Throttle Bodies and AFM's. This is only really done later as its a Stage 2 or 3 upgrade IMHO. Its not technically a remap but it does require the ecu's to be reflashed, its actiually changing the voltage linearization tables, etc. so the right amount of air being flowed by the larger diameter AFM's is interpreted correctly by the ecu's when working out its air fuel ratio's (AFR's).

    The air flow meters (AFM's) are a good upgrade [as used by stock on the Challenge Stradale] but only really impact higher RPM range so you don't loose power above 8k. On the stock Modena AFMs power tails off considerably at higher RPM's even if the rev line is upped. With the larger AFM's power continues to climb as rev's rise so you really should only consider doing this in combination with free flowing cats (or deletion), low pressure back box (like optional factory sports exhaust) and Challenge stradale firmware baseline upgraded and tweaked for all of the above. The instant torque patch I developed too makes the car really come alive. Total transformation. Think of doing all of this with analogy of the CS being a GT3, then this state of upgrade becomes the GT3 RS. Much more aggressive feeling!

    Merry Xmas everyone!
     
    imahorse, kes7u and one4torque like this.
  12. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

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    Also see the cs has a simple flexible tube from the side air intake to the air box.

    vs the Modena gets the plastic resonator tube. Any gains from swapping the resonator for the cs flexible hose?

    once get the id of this flex hose I’ll try it.

    should be easy to source

    I see eBay had the cs dryer hose for 150. Pretty sure I can find something comparable.
     
  13. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

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    Air intake mods list:
    CS flex intake hose (replace the hemholz resonator)
    Air Box - add heat insulation on the bottom and sides of stock air box
    Air Box Lids - CF lids (many sources).... also investigating modifying a spare set of lids for high flow... more to come.
    Air Filter - some run KN. I've had issues with oiled filters and fouling bosch mas. Will test some dry am filters.
    430 MAS - tuning required.... more to come.
    430 TB - tuning req...more to come.....

    LMK if I'm missing anything here.

    Other notes:
    * found a gruppe M CF intake box/filters/lids and sep head shield. Looked like a good design.
     
  14. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    That's from an actual 360 Challenge race car, not the CS. It's basically just flexible race automotive tubing and you can pick it up by the meter very inexpensively.

    Yes you pick up a few hp at high rpm but the induction noise is the nicest side effect. Across rev range you can hear it breathing much more..
     
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  15. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula Junior
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    The standard 360 and the CS intakes has a big drain whole on the bottom that allows the rain water to drain, Challenge tube does not . I found Challenge carbon fiber air intake tube and the flexible tube it is a good bit bigger the the CS one. You ether find a Challenge air box or you modify yours. I modified mine and if you want to modify your stock air box it will be very hard to find welder with the skill set that can weld thin aluminum
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  16. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula Junior
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  17. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula Junior
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    see how big the hole is for the water to drain and you must lose some air pressure in your air box for this ? and you save a good bit of weight by deleting that box air conveyor and going to the Challenge one.
     
  18. one4torque

    one4torque Formula 3

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    #19 one4torque, Dec 26, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
    I bought a complete Modena air system from a wreck to modify.

    includes air tube w helzholm resonator, air box bottom lids mass air meters.

    I can solder thin al w these handy al solder rods and map gas. Will give it a go. Otherwise hit up my local fabricator welded Jedi.

    planning for insulation in the bottom air box

    mod stock lids for smooth flow.


    My research says res before mass air meter is purely to kill intake noises not for performance... so it will go


    Trev— thx for all the data and pics. Going to have fun w this project.
     
  19. Some Guy in the sky

    Sep 19, 2018
    73
    I don't know if you have talked about it but could you elaborate on the instant torque patch? I'm assuming this means increasing the torque at the lower rpms? How is this done and are there any negative consequences (extra wear and tear) that come from this modification.
     
  20. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    #21 360trev, Dec 28, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2019
    I modified the ecu software. No wear consequences but there are things you need to be aware of..

    I was fed up with the lag/built in delay and smoothing of the throttle between going on and off the throttle and the request from your right foot actually giving you torque to the wheels. The stock programming can delay torque hitting the rear wheels by upto 1000ms (1 full second of transition time!) which can feel like an eternity if your mid corner and your trying to trim the line...

    I can fully understand why Bosch did this, its to make the throttle feel more like a cable operating but I wanted instant direct and snappy torque. And primarily to give their old Bosch ABS/TC a chance to catch any impending slide if your really silly with the throttle in bad conditions.

    Pros: It's for drivers this one, you can steer car much more easily on throttle than ever before. Throttle is razor sharp and feels like driving a much more modern car. More 458 Soeciale than 90s Ferrari.

    Cons: In fairness the older Bosch ABS and traction control could be caught out by the big surge of torque on and off pedal you can now generate so you need more experience to drive with this patch done or if your not it's in theory easier to spin. I've also done other mods such as improved anti spin geometry (as used on F430) so depends on how you set up the handling too.

    Everyone who's tried it doesn't want to ever go back to stock!
     
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