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328 Liners/Pistons

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by afterburner, Nov 26, 2019.

  1. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Question to 328 engine experts - advice please:
    Can green and red dot liners be mixed in the same engine?
    Are the pistons identical = interchangable between red and green dot liners?

    Background: A friend is rebuilding a 328 engine with a corrosion hole in one of the liners... and found that there are 7 green dot and 1 red dot liner.

    Thanks for your advice!
    Urs
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    A. Yes
    B. No


    Cavitation damage. He is using the wrong coolant and isn't changing it often enough. With the exception of 2 relatively new products anti cavitation additives only last for a year, and that is only the coolants that still have them and that is very few.
     
  3. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Thank you very much, Brian!
     
  4. afterburner

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  5. afterburner

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  6. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Owner wants to change one liner (shop would change all 8 of course).
    1) Does anyone have a Mahle liner available?
    2) There is only one part number for the piston rings = same rings for Mahle and Borgo?
    Thanks for your help!
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    #7 Rifledriver, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    4 valve motors all used Mahle. No, Borgo rings, even if they fit the pistons would not be proper for an aluminum cylinder. Where did Borgo even come up in a discussion about 328 motors? Ferrari last used Borgo in a V8 in 1982.

    It is almost certain that the hole was caused by cavitation, 100% preventable by the way, and just as certain that other cylinders are affected too. 8 liners and 8 pistons are the only advisable fix. Too bad, bad maintenance caused that.

    I do have a set of used 328 liners but will not break up the set.
     
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  8. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Thanks for your reply Brian. I have sent you an email.
    Borgo: The service centre mentioned it a while ago but the parts manual only list one reference and the all the pistons are indeed Mahle.
    What coolant do you suggest to use to prevent this sort of issue?
     
  9. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

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    Which models have wet liners .. up to the 355 and 512m or later ?

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    166-812 except F50
     
  11. flash32

    flash32 Formula 3

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    Wow didn't realize ..thank you so much

    Sent from my moto g(7) using Tapatalk
     
  12. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Forgot. 246 didn't have wet liners either.
     
  13. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    It looks like Borgo is supplying replacement liners for the 328 engine; the /R part number.
     
  14. MerlinTech

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    LA Sleeve and Darton both can make sleeves. I have had LA Sleeve make 328 sleeves for me before. It is all a matter of budget. To save money, you can use steel sleeves without Nikasil and change the ring package. You can have steel sleeves made and with Nikasil treatment as well, it just cost more.
    Also, I have pistons made with modern technology and design. No need passing up industry improvements. The concourse judge won't see them anyway.
    I agree that all eight liners should be replaced. If the pistons measure in the acceptable range, then just reuse them. Match the ring package to the liner you have made and put it back together go drive the hell out of it.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    But you don't want them. I didn't know they had sunk that low in contracting out replacement parts but I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Getting rid of Borgo as a supplier was one of the best things Ferrari ever did. They are still making 19th century products.
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Of you can bore and recoat the alloy sleeves and have a better end product.
     
  17. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Thanks, I have contacted them both just now.
     
  18. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Ahh? Quality issue?
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Garbage.
     
  20. MerlinTech

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    Not his, they are trash on the coolant side.
     
  21. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    Seriously...
     
  22. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I guess you missed the part where I told him to replace all 8? I was responding to your method of replacing the Mahle sleeves with an inferior product.

    Mahle sleeves are available, you just need to want to do a quality repair, thats all. I have done it a number of times.
     
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  23. afterburner

    afterburner Formula 3
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    My car had a full set of new Mahle sleeves... the original ones were all worn around the top ring area.
     

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