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328 ABS vs non-ABS brakes

Discussion in '308/328' started by Kent Dellenbusch, May 4, 2021.

  1. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    Hi All,
    Understanding the 88.5 and 89 328 has ABS what are the significant advantages from the previous years? Cost for parts, repairs, and the accessibility of parts. Are there pros and cons? I'm not a heavy footed driver nor do I hit the breaks hard at stop signs. Just sunny CA weather weekend driving.
    I ask because I'm looking at 328 and this is one thing that keeps popping up in my mind. I prefer the looks of the convex wheels but not a deal-breaker. Thank you in advance for your experience.
     
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  3. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    31,759
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    I just helped a friend buy a 88.5 328 yesterday here in town with the convex wheels and without ABS.

    I wouldn't want ABS on one. Just something else to break and cost too much IF parts are still readily available. I told him I recommended this particular car because he got the upgraded anti-dive suspension without the ABS hardware.
     
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  4. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 9, 2016
    716
    Non ABS allows you to put even better aftermarket Compo, or HRE wheels. I have an 89, and I drive it proper, it has ABS, the brakes on these cars are so good, in 22 years, its only kicked in once or twice. Dont worry about the brakes, make sure you get a well kept up machine.

    Thank you
     
  5. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    May 4, 2001
    31,759
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Except for hitting a patch of gravel in the wrong place at the wrong time, that ABS is only going to really help in the rain. If you don't drive in wet weather (why would you voluntarily in that car) and if you don't push it like you say you don't - forget the ABS. Seriously. You don't need it AND you have the added benefit of a reduced price since most feel not having it decreases the value a tiny bit.
     
  6. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    10,673
    San Carlos, CA
    Full Name:
    Mitchell Le
    You buy a Ferrari and you worry about .... brakes?
     
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  8. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,830
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    An alternate view.... ABS is the primary reason I wanted an '89 328 as opposed to an earlier 328. There may be folks here than can apply the brakes more effectively/emergency stop in less distance than ABS but I'm not one of them! The system has been totally invisible on my car as far as repair or maintenance. The maintenance is the same as for a non-ABS system - pads as necessary, fluid changes as necessary.
     
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  9. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    Thank you for your suggestion. This is good to know.
     
  10. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    Thank you Gino. I'll take your advice.
     
  11. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    Thank you.
     
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  13. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    I was looking at AMG-GT's with carbon and Lambo's as well. It's not the price, it's the availability of parts. I simply do not know how available parts are.
     
  14. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,800
    FRANCE
    They are not easily available, but they can be found. Your main worry would be the "Centraline", or E.C.U; they are not exactly easily available, but one dose pop up from time to time; trouble is, as there are very few available, the price might sting a bit...
    On the other hand, the 328 ABS system is made by ATE (= Teves) in Germany so its a very simple and common technology.

    Rgds

    https://www.ebay.de/itm/265138428801?hash=item3dbb7b5b81:g:J~cAAOSwSJdghs7D
     
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  15. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    Thank you Nerofer, from France. Much apprecited.
     
  16. Kent Dellenbusch

    Oct 7, 2008
    39
    Upland, CA
    Full Name:
    Kent Dellenbusch
    Thank you very much for your advice.
     
  17. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,800
    FRANCE
    To be more comprehensive:
    There is a factory technical publication in four languages "Impianto Frenante Anti-Skid Teves MKII" (in English "Teves ABS MkII Brake System").
    Factory print reference: "Cat 534/ 88", printed by Graphotecnica Maranello.
    Which is a 58 pages booklet that explains the ABS circuit, principle, parts and failure checks in some details (As it is in four languages, that makes actualy less than 58 pages for each language...)
    To really nit-pick: the owner's manual for ABS cars should be accompanied by a small eight pages addendum "ABS Supplement", factory print reference 522/88. Not really usefull, but it shows that your owner's pouch is complete...

    To beat a dead horse again:
    For US delivered 328s, the situation is simple:
    For cars with the "revised suspension" and bulged wheels (after car #76626, even if there are a very small number after that chassis number still with the older suspension, mainly RHD, but a very small number of others, too):
    All MY 1988, the so-called "88 1/2" (second half of the 88 M.Y) have bulged wheels, but do NOT have ABS
    All MY 1989 have bulged wheels and ABS.

    For the rest of the world, ABS was an extra (and paying...) option from February 1988 (and car #76626) until the end of the production; cars with bulged wheels may, or may not, have ABS. The telltale is the brake fluid reservoir:
    - large, and fitted exactly in the middle of the spare wheels shroud, just in front of the windscreen: the car has ABS.
    - small, and offset towards the passenger's side: the car does not have ABS

    For the Australian market, which received only GTSs, ABS was not offered at all: all bulged wheels cars were delivered without ABS.

    I have two '89 "euro" 328s, a GTB and a GTS, both with bulged wheels; the GTB was ordered with the ABS option (which was paid for) and delivered with it; the GTS does not have ABS.
    I'm with "Mike996" as far as ABS goes; I don't trust myself in real emergency braking and let the ABS do the job if needed.
    I tend to drive very early in the morning, sometimes as soon as the sun rises. I'm living in a fairly rural place; lots of small animals on the road, usually; sometimes bigger ones like deers, etc. That ABS had saved a number of squirrels, cats, dogs, and probably saved the car from one or two deers, too...

    No maintenance trouble at all with it in the 13 years I've got the car.

    Rgds
     
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  18. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    834
    just outside JHB, RSA
    Full Name:
    John
    My 26 year experienced Ferrari tech./mechanic says he never found problems with the ABS system on the 328 besides on the normal braking system with the master cylinder failing, brake pressure switches, the ABS sensors and brake lines becoming old, ABS cars carry a higher premium and the ABS system can be disabled when a problem should arise rendering it like the standard braking system.
     
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  19. islandguy

    islandguy Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,230
    Northern CA & NV
    I purposely didn't but an 88.5 or 89 because I like the concave wheels.
     
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  20. wfu97

    wfu97 Rookie

    Jul 15, 2018
    24
    North Carolina USA
    Full Name:
    S W
    I felt the same way. Purposely look for an 86 to early 88 and ended up buying an 86.
     
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  21. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    7,796
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    I bought a late '89 328 GTS because the price was right, and 32 years after leaving Maranello, being a part of the 308/328 GTB/GTS family, it's still the most beautiful car ever made!

    As for convex or concave wheels?: I couldn't care less!

    To me, it's like being put off a stunningly beautiful woman because her eyes are brown, and not blue - It's not the end of the World.

    As far as I'm concerned, the convex wheels don't make my car any less stunning, and when I look at my car, I don't fixate on the wheels.

    That's just me though! :)
     
  22. Dave Bertrand

    Dave Bertrand Karting
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 24, 2005
    154
    Castle Rock, CO
    Nope, it isn't just you! I think the convex wheels look just as good as the so-called concave wheels. They aren't actually concave anyway, are they? I'm pretty sure they're actually flat as a pancake.

    I bought my '89 because it was the color combo I wanted and because it's the final year of production of the most iconic Ferrari line ever.
     
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  23. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,800
    FRANCE
    To each his own, I guess. I have always thought that the convex wheels are better matched to the redesigned bumpers of the 328. This is why both my 328s are '89 with convex wheels.

    One point of note, although I have written this already quite a number of times before...
    The factory explained that the redesigned suspension on the "serie 2" 328s was adopted first and foremost to ease the procurement of parts; it is indeed the "Mondial" complete front suspension: same triangles (= "A-Arms") same uprights, same wheel offset, same wheels (except that the "Ferrari 7JX16" marking on the rim is different, but that's all) etc...it so happened that this suspension could also accept ABS, but that was not the main purpose of the change.
    Even if that change in the front suspension mandated also a change in the chassis itself, as the welding and anchorage of the front pyramid of tubes supporting the suspension is different, to give anti-dive.

    Rgds
     
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  24. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
    5,830
    TX//Mexico/UK
    Full Name:
    Mike 996
    I read somewhere that the suspension change that accommodated ABS also improved some aspect of handling but I can't recall where I read that - might have been just a claim by a 328 owner that was not based on reality! :)
     
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  25. nerofer

    nerofer F1 World Champ

    Mar 26, 2011
    10,800
    FRANCE
    Well, according to the period press articles I have, it did indeed.
    Compared to the "1st serie", the front suspension has anti-dive, the front track is wider, but the wheel base is actually 1/2 inch shorter.

    Rgds
     
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  26. JohnnyTS

    JohnnyTS Formula Junior

    Jun 3, 2012
    834
    just outside JHB, RSA
    Full Name:
    John
    I did not like the Convex wheels at first but they grew on me now ! hehe
     
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  27. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

    Oct 18, 2009
    7,796
    Worcester, England
    Full Name:
    Phill J
    It's all a personal choice at the end of the day - I just think some people make far too much fuss about pre/post ABS 328's, and how the wheels look.

    The 328 GTB/GTS, as with the 308 GTB/GTS, is simply one of, if not THE, most stunningly beautiful cars ever made! - It's just perfect looking from any angle, and the convex wheels do not change that! :cool:
     
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  28. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Sep 1, 2010
    6,877
    around Modena, Italy
    Full Name:
    Alberto
    The real story is that the ABS required an antidive front suspension to work well. They already did it for the Mondial 3.2, so they put the Mondial front suspensions on 328 GTB/GTS 88-89 and GTB/GTS turbo 88-89. Dario Benuzzi preferred the early suspensions, but the ABS was a big emprovement for road usage and so also him states it was an improvement (the 88-89 without ABS it's almost a nonsense). You can write all the story told by Dario Benuzzi on my book "Ferrari, the turbo eight cylinders (1982-1989)".

    Ciao
     
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