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1978 Ferrari 400i 5 Speed Chassis 37297

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by samsaprunoff, Nov 4, 2020.

  1. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Jun 8, 2004
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    Sam Saprunoff
    Good day All,

    Just documenting these cars, as they come up.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-ferrari-400-2/

    Cheers,

    Sam


    1978 400i 5 Speed
    Color: Verde Pino (Green) Exterior with Tan with Green Accents Interior
    Mileage: 23342 KMs
    Location: Monterey, CA, USA
    Chassis: 37297

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  3. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 22, 2004
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    Jack
    I have a notion to bid on this and would appreciate any comments, especially from anyone with knowledge of this specific car. Value opinions would be welcomed as well.

    Thank you.

    Jack.
     
  4. raemin

    raemin Formula Junior

    Jan 16, 2007
    768
    Lyon (FR)
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    R. Emin
    Personnal biased opinion: that's a really nice colour combination with the "retro" interior (wood console and more gauges than on the later models), dual mirror (with the proper switch), dual AC and manual gearbox. All in all I would consider this car as very desirable.

    Caveats:
    1. I doubt this is a "23k miles" car. Most odometer are in km (despite the speed markings in miles) and only have 5 digits. This could well be a 123.000km car (75.000miles).
    2. The test drive is performed with opened window, not sure AC works.
    3. The exhaust is far from stock, maybe a Californian setup
    4. Exhaust manifolds are a bit rusty
    5. The car looks tatty but there are quite a few shiny bits (filters, fuel pumps, accumulators, A-Arms bolts) that suggest some deep maintenance was performed
    6. On startup there is a bit of clap/clap/clap, during the rest of the test run engine seems strong : valve clearance and/or chain tension should be adjusted (?)
     
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  6. rovexienus

    rovexienus Formula Junior
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    Jean-Michel Savary
    Also there is a rare toolkit holder in the spare wheel but this does not fit very well the 415mm rim (it is made for the 15" rim). The toolkit itself and the jack bag seem to be missing.
     
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  7. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    313
    Germany
    I would agree with what Raemin is stating. I also believe 127k Km by looking at seat bolster, wear on pedal rubers, general condition of underside and things like the rubbers under the rear springs, etc. Any paperwork to proof Km?
    I did not hear the clatter in start up Raemin mentions but this could be the belts, typical for 400. I love the color combo.
     
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  8. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    Good day Jack,

    One would really need to see and inspect the car to understand the car's immediate (if any) and future needs. Although Raemin pointed out that the exhaust is non original, to me this is not a big deal. An original would be nice, but replacing what is there with an original Ansa can easily cost you over $8K. There are after market exhaust manufacturers that offer superior replacements (Stainless Steel) at about 1/2 the price.

    Having gone through the suspension on my car and being familair with the setup, I can see that the suspension rubbers are somewhat worn given the tell-tale cracks in them. Although the cracks are visibly disturbing, I found the cracking only on the exterior of these mounts... and the interiors were not cracked. However, I did find that the inner rubbers were hard and so the overall quality of the ride and driveability would be in question. Replacement of the bushings is pretty straightforward, but is a lot of work and does add up, as each bushing is not inexpensive and is or can be labor intensive. Also at the same time one usually inspects and rebuilds the shocks at the same time.

    The engine bay and underneath do look weathered and so I would spend the $$$ and have a solid PPI done on the car to ensure that the weathering was from use and not simply reflective of old and tired parts. With these cars it is best to know what $$$ you may need in order to minimize any financial surprises.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  9. christc

    christc Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2013
    313
    Germany
    By the look of it the silencer back boxes are still Ansa, but with new exhaust tubes welded to it. You are able to buy different systems as stated by Sam. There are fabricators in the US who do stainless systems looking exactly like the original Ansa, e.g. timevalve. I have no experience how original or good they sound, which is important when going for stainless as it has different accoustic behaviour.
     
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  11. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Thank you, Sam.
     
  12. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,164
    Note that this car was supplied new to the UK (LHD notwithstanding) so would probably have had an Imperial odometer from new. So the reading will be in miles. Whether it has been round the clock is another question.
     
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  13. Temerian

    Temerian Karting
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    Jun 17, 2014
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    Manhattan
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    Rick Temerian
    I'm curious about the chassis number. My 1979 400i is number 28977 and this car is number 38297. Did Ferrari manufacture 4,160 of this model in 1979. Also, I don't think this car wold ever pass the California BAR testing. The last registration sticker on the plate is from 2001. Otherwise it looks great in Verde Pino and would be a wonderful addition to someones garage.
     
  14. donv

    donv Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 5, 2002
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    Ferrari serial numbers are for ALL Ferraris made, not by model. So 4,000 road Ferraris of all types seems plausible. That would include 308s, Boxers, and 400s.
     
  15. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
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    Odd numbers only for road cars at that time.
     
  16. Al Campbell

    Al Campbell Formula Junior
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    Nov 22, 2013
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    I had to check the user manual to see what the red light was that comes & goes in the centre gauges on the video. It's the low fuel warning. :)
     
  17. NMNMNMN

    NMNMNMN Formula Junior
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  18. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Oct 21, 2006
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    Kurt
    This one is a mis-registered 1979, per the seller (early in the comments):
    It is a ’79 model, the California title was issued in 1996 and for some reason they listed it on title as a ’78… maybe due to the out of state title showing it sold in ’78 or something along those lines.​
    ....as well as
    The CA DMV does funny things, this car was titled and owned in another state prior to 1996. It is a ’79 model, but for some reason CA DMV titled it as a ’78. BAT has a copy of the title on file and there is no doubt that this car is really a ’79 but for the paper trail, the ad needs to match the title… so here we are.​
    Further clarified by another BATer:
    It is a 400i but in no way is it a 1978. 400i was introduced as a 1979 model and build number is 37297 which puts it in late 1981 or early 1982, no? The 400i saw significant changes in 1982/3 so it’s no later than that.​

    Marcel could fill in the manufacture date and configuration, and likely much more.
    I'm kinda surprised that we don't have a registry similar to those we have for the Boxers (if we do, I can't recall it)

    This one is beautiful, and has Jen's attention because of the green.
     
  19. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks for all the helpful comments. I’ve decided not to bid. This just isn’t a car I want to buy sight unseen, and I’m really more interested in a 365......if anyone knows of a good one available.;)

    Jack.
     
  20. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    California did something similar on my 84. It had been titled in California as an 85. When I registered in WA state I corrected it to 84.​
     
  21. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
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    The older the model year the more emissions allowed.
    Perhaps with the addition of the catalysts a fuel injected '79 would meet the '78 standards.
    For the miles these cars see I don't understand why there just isn't an emissions exemption. Any %$^*$# Prius pollutes far more in a decade than most of our vintage Ferraris do in the same period of time.
    I love the colors of 37297
    It will be a six figure car before you know it. Well bought and sold.
     
  22. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

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    Sold for $64,000. I absolutely love that green.
     
  23. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    I wish both the buyer and seller all the best with the car, but I am bit surprised at the price. I say this chassis 23613 (automatic) of the same vintage (although carbed) was sold a week before for $24K less, but appeared to be in a lot better condition and had more love (look at the engine bay, etc):

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/1978-ferrari-400gta-chassis-23613.631310/

    I recognize that manual cars command a higher price, but this 37297 would take a fair amount of $$$ to bring it to the condition of 23613 and so the comparative price difference would be much higher. Either the market has spoken in that manual cars command a much higher price than autos... or perhaps 23613 was under sold.

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
  24. samsaprunoff

    samsaprunoff F1 Rookie
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    #23 samsaprunoff, Nov 10, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2020
    Good day Jack,

    I guess it would depend upon how much of a gambler you are and/or how much work you can do yourself. Given the pics, etc I would have made the same decision as you. Sadly, without doing a thorough PPI it is tough to estimate how much $$$ the car will need... and some items can be really pricey and/or have a lot of labot effort.

    As for 365's... I think I have seen two marketed here in North America. Gullwing in NY has a 365 that has been for sale for a few years now, but it will take some solid $ to make it a nice driver. Perhaps check Hemmings from time to time, as I see a few in there once in a while. The other option is to buy from Europe, as there are usually a few for sale there. However, you would be in a similar situation where you will be relying on someone else's eyes and experience in order to provide feedback for you.

    Another option is Chassis 63377 (412 5 Speed) which is now listed on Bat:

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1986-ferrari-412-gt-3/

    There is a bit of info on 63377 located here:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/hilton-head-auction.502212/

    Cheers,

    Sam
     
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  25. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Thanks, Sam. I think the BAT car was probably well bought at that price. The 365 at Gullwing has been for sale for a long time and it’s in one of my favorite colors, blu Ribot. I have been watching a few in Europe. There was one for sale by a member here last year, silver/red but I think that one got away.

    Jack.
     
  26. jtremlett

    jtremlett F1 Rookie

    Feb 18, 2004
    4,164
    As I posted on BaT, 37297 was supplied new by London main dealers HR Owen in July 1981. There is a copy of the importer's delivery note in the images the seller posted.
     
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