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12467 Daytona Comp offered by Artcurial

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Daytonafan, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

    Nov 19, 2008
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    Steven Robertson
    12467 is an important car in Ferrari History if Chinetti commissioned it too. He was Ferrari's partner in the US and the Official Ferrari Importer so in my opinion the mods can be considered genuine Ferrari as they were commissioned by a Ferrari agent - N.A.R.T. no less, and carried out by Diena & Silingardi, Sport - Auto, Modena who did much work for the Ferrari Factory. It was certainly the N.A.R.T. Daytona Competizione Prototype, the style of which the Factory also followed in the series of Comp Daytonas they made.

    Both the N.A.R.T. and Factory Daytona Competizione cars are absolutely awesome!!!!
     
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  3. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #52 miurasv, May 5, 2018
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
    ....and we must not forget who Luigi Chinetti was: a 3 times Le Mans winner including for Ferrari in 1949. He really did contribute to Ferrari's success in many ways. Chinetti knew as much as anyone what was required of a winning car, and it was his son, along with Bob Grossman, that came 5th overall at LM '71, only behind the 917s and 512s, so the spiritual winner of its class really.
     
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  4. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
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    I don't mean to denigrate Luigi Jr. but his Dad was one of the giants of the 1930-50's. Arguably Ferrari as a manufacturer would not have survived but for Luigi Chinetti, Sr.
     
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  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Artcurial on their Facebook page state: "The Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona Gr. IV chassis #12467, one of the 15 models presented by the factory."


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  6. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    Presented is an interesting term isn't it?
     
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  8. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #56 miurasv, May 8, 2018
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
    Matthieu Lamoure, Managing Director of Artcurial is more specific re 12467 here: “47 years after achieving an impressive 5th place in the world’s most iconic race, this exceptional Group IV Daytona, one of 15 examples built by the factory, represents a jewel for collectors.”

    Artcurial also claim on their Linkedin page as below that 12467 was sold by the factory directly to Luigi Chinetti in April, 1971 and that it was one of 3 development prototypes.



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  9. Lamoure

    Lamoure Rookie

    May 9, 2012
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    Cher Marcel,

    This Daytona did not definitely been converted by Diena. In the important file coming with the car, there are all the proofs (invoices annoted, copy of cheques, Ferrari invoice for the transport of the car from the factory to Le Mans track) that Chinetti bought the car at the factory. The car was already developped for competition by the factory and Chinetti asked to get all the last details done to response exactly to the Groupe 4 specs. The car is one of the 2 prototypes of the 15 examples built by the factory. When Keno has presented the car, they did not read all the file or they did not have the full proofs. They all will be in the catalogue reproduced.
    In France, we have a huge responsability on authenticity during 10 years on what we write in our catalogues. It is the only country where this responsability protects the buyers in auctions. Now, we have all the proofs and we have no problem to write the following description in our coming catalogue, everything being very clear:

    Competition vehicule
    Chassis n°12467
    Moteur 251

    · Factory prototype prepared by Ferrari
    · Important racing history
    · Ferrari Classiche Certification in process

    5th in the 1971 Le Mans 24 Hours and 1st in the Index of Performance
    1969 Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona Competizione Groupe 4
    Ferrari has a place in the history of motor racing that few marques can match. Enzo Ferrari never ceased to build competition models, for all types of racing, in order to win. Motor racing fans around the world have been won over by the thousands of victories the marque has to its name. Presented at the Paris Motor Show in 1968, the new 365 GTB/4 Daytona was no different to previous models and would get its own « Competizione » version.

    Daytona #12547, the first prototype, was sold in 1969 to Luigi Chinetti at N.A.R.T. to participate in the 1969 Le Mans 24 Hours. Red with a black stripe down the side, this car had aluminium bodywork, but glass windows, air conditioning and a standard rear exhaust. It weighed in at 1495kgs with an empty fuel tank! This first prototype was damaged in testing and never made it to the start at Le Mans. It did start the 1970 Daytona 24 Hours, but didn’t see the checkered flag.

    A second 365 GTB/4 Group 4 prototype, chassis n° 12467, the car on offer, was acquired directly from the factory by Chinetti on 10 June 1971. In the file, there is a copy of the dated cheque, for the sum of USD 11,630, annotated in the margin by Chinetti himself : « Full Payment of 365/ Daytona #12467 for Le Mans ». The car was in fact prepared by the factory and delivered directly to the 24 Hours circuit by Ferrari; a copy of the transport bill issued on 7 June 1971 for 200,000 Italian lira is also in the file. Chassis #12467 was fully prepared to Group 4 spec, with the help of Carrozzeria Sports Cars, based next door to the factory, in order to comply with the stringent regulations for the class. A copy of a letter addressed to this subcontractor lists the necessary additional equipment required, such as battery cut-out, an adjustment to prevent the use of reverse gear, an FIA compliant roll-bar and other minor details. The car had a steel body with a side exhaust, and apart from the windscreen, the windows were plexiglass. It had larger headlights set behind vertical plexiglass, with switches on the roof and the front right-hand wing. The wings were slightly flared, and small spoilers added at the front. The fuel cap was set in the centre of the rear boot lid and the air-conditioning system was retained. The car weighed 1514kgs with 120 litres of fuel, equating to approximately 1396kg when empty, with an engine producing 400bhp.
    For support in the 1971 Le Mans 24 Hours, Luigi Chinetti asked to borrow some mechanics from Diena to help with the 512M and from Pozzi for the Daytona 12467. "Coco" Chinetti, Luigi’s son and Bob Grossman were the drivers. During the first testing session, Coco Chinetti complained that the ATE brakes weren’t working efficiently. Pozzi’s two French mechanics fitted some soft Abex pads which allowed Chinetti and Grossman to reduce the braking distances. However, these pads had to be changed every six hours at the front and 7h30 at the back.


    Daytona #12467 ran like a dream right from the start at 16.00. Twenty-fifth after 3 hours, fifteenth after 12 hours, by the 19th hour it was running in fifth position. The car recorded its best lap time of 4'14" 3/10e during the race, some 7 seconds quicker than in testing! It retained its position to cross the finish line 5th overall and also win the Energy Index with an average consumption of 40 litres per 100 kms for the 4.218,752 km covered.

    At the start of 1972, the car sold to Clive Baker, who ran the Baker Motor Co. team. The wings were widened, a large spoiler added at the front, angular fairings put in front of the lights and the bodywork was painted orange with white stripes. It was entered for the Daytona Six Hours and finished 15th, driven by Grossman and Reynolds. For the Sebring 12 Hours, on 25 March, it was fitted with glass windows and given a new front spoiler, to comply with the new FIA homologation requiring a minimum weight of 1350kg without fuel. Grossman and Reynolds finished 19th. At Watkins Glen on 22 July, Reynolds and De Lorenzo brought the car home in 11th place. Chassis 12467 made a final appearance at the 1973 Sebring 12 Hours, but a mechanical problem prevented it from taking the start.

    After that, this Daytona continued its life in the hands of various collectors including, twice, Bill Kontes and Rob Walton. It remained in the United States for some twenty years, before returning to Europe where the current owner has had the car inspected by Pozzi in Paris to obtain Ferrari Classiche certification. It will be delivered with its original engine block and a comprehensive file detailing the car’s entire history from new, including details of the sale and delivery by the factory to Le Mans for its participation in the most legendary race in the world on 12 and 13 June 1971, where it finished 5th overall and won the Index of Performance.

    On the two prototypes of the15 factory Ferrari 365 GTB/4 Daytona Group 4 cars, this is the only one with such a racing provenance. This is therefore one of the most desirable examples of these highly successful Daytonas, eligible today for numerous historic race events including Le Mans Classic.

    The Daytona Group IV is the future in historic racing competition and its value will continue to increase in the years to come, just like the most prestigious racing Ferrari cars.

    RACING HISTORY CHASSIS N°12467

    1971
    12/13 June - 24 Hours Le Mans (N.A.R.T.)
    n°58 Bob Grossman/Coco Chinetti - 5th and 1st in Energy Index.

    1972
    6 February - Daytona 6 Hours (Baker Motor Co.)
    n°18 Bob Grossman/Chuck Reynolds -15th

    25 March - Sebring 12 Hours (Baker Motor Co.)
    n°18 Chuck Reynolds/Harry Ingle - 19th

    22 July - Watkins Glen 6 Hours (Baker Motor Castrol)
    n°18 Chuck Reynolds/Tony de Lorenzo - 11th

    17 September - Road America 500 in Atlanta (Baker Motor Co)
    n°18 Chuck Reynolds - Retired


    1973
    24 March - Sebring 12 Hours (GT Cars).
    n°21 Harley Cluxton/Sam Posey - Non starter
     
  10. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Is a Red Book Classiche Certification in process as an Authentic Ferrari or a White book as a Vehicle of Historic Interest? Wouldn't it have been better to have offered the car for sale with the Classiche Certification concluded?

    I see your previous statement : "one of 15 examples built by the factory" has changed to: "The car is one of the 2 prototypes of the 15 examples built by the factory." If it is indeed a factory car isn't it one of 17 cars built by the factory?
     
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  11. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Also:

    · Factory prototype prepared by Ferrari.

    The above does not necessarily mean it was built by Ferrari.
     
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  13. Sempre_gilles

    Sempre_gilles Formula Junior

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    Never heard of this one....
     
  14. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Sold $5.4m Eur.
     
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  15. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    $ or €? Sold below estimate?
     
  16. amenasce

    amenasce Two Time F1 World Champ
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  17. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
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    Thanks Andrew!
     
  18. stevewak

    stevewak Karting

    Jul 31, 2006
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    UK
    It was not sold.
     
  19. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

    Apr 5, 2010
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    Artcurial haven't posted results yet and while I am sure they are working hard on a post block sale, 5.4 million EURO is not an unfair bid for #12467 and the vendor would be mad to not accept it. That said the same vendor also offered a 250GT Series I Pininfarina Spider at Artcurial's Retromobile sale in early 2018 and asked for $2 - 3 million more than any other example had ever sold for and didn't accept a market correct high bid so..... Maybe they have their own game or sales theory that only they know about.

    As ever full results and discussion will be available at
    www.autoauctionsmonthly.com
    (in the next week or so)
     
  20. Frank_Ford

    Frank_Ford Rookie

    Mar 28, 2014
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    Going back in time to 2018, if you don't mind? When Artcurial offered the car, the chassis stampings were not consistent with those for the year built, or model - and the serial number had been restamped. Was that already the case during your ownership?

    Is it known whether the Keno/Artcurial-offered car ever did obtain red-book certification, as hinted in Artcurial's catalogue?
     

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