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12467 Daytona Comp offered by Artcurial

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Daytonafan, Apr 20, 2018.

  1. Daytonafan

    Daytonafan F1 Rookie

    Oct 18, 2003
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  3. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Mar 2, 2005
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    Factory completed it 28 April 1969. Standard steel body.
    Converted by Diena & Silingardi's Autofficina Sport Auto in April 1971 for Bob Grossman, Nyack/NY.
    Car is owned by a French dealer in the Marseille area.

    Marcel Massini
     
  4. 375+

    375+ F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
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    Loflyer47 will be watching this sale closely.
     
  5. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    The author of the article is confusing this car with one of the 16 factory Comp. Daytonas.
     
  6. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    I have a lot of miles behind the wheel of this car. Great Daytona. Not originally built as a "factory Comp Daytona" but the race prep WAS done at the factory for Chinetti in 1971. When we had it the paperwork was still with the car. Has a great race history. I still have the crankshaft from the car (in two pieces).
     
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  8. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Sport Auto Modena (Diena & Silingardi) invoiced Luigi Chinetti Sr. on the 11th June 1971 for their work.
    Copy of invoice in my archive.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  9. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    He sold it two years ago to France.

    Marcel Massini
     
  10. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Marcel: I have the invoice from the Ferrari factory (#324AC, 188P) for the "preparazione vettura alia 24 ore di LeMans". It lists the parts included and was for a total of 315,157 lira. Chinetti was invoiced on July 27th after the race. On June 6th, the factory invoiced Chinetti (#378/71) for 200,000 lira for transportation of the car to Le Mans.
     
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  11. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Marcel: I suspect work was done in both places. I noticed the factory charged Chinetti 18,792 lira for gasoline used for testing the car prior to the race.
     
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  13. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    Yes, correct.
    Sport Auto Modena (Diena & Silingardi) invoiced Italian Lire 286'000.
    I have all those invoices and the factory ones as well.

    Marcel Massini
     
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  14. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Those invoices aren't for a lot of money. 315,157 Italian Lira was about £208 GBP in 1971. What parts were listed on the invoice for that?
     
  15. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Steve; Normal race prep parts and spares. You forget how "cheap" things used to be. I used to buy parts from the factory that were $10 and now are close to $1,000.
     
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  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #13 miurasv, Apr 20, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
    I always thought Ferrari spares were always expensive. Though I do remember my father in the '70s being pleasantly surprised by the cost of some parts for his Boxer such as a clutch, but others were very expensive. Saying that I would have thought the actual conversion cost from Road to full Competition spec of a Daytona would have been many times more than £208 GBP.
     
  17. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Steve: In early 1971, there was no "full competition spec" for a Daytona. They changed the headlight area, made some air ducts for the brakes, installed competition pads, and larger carburetor chokes and stripped out some of the interior, a little exhaust tubing and they went racing. Daytona's are one of the toughest cars Ferrari ever built. I have always told people they have no weak areas and are built like a bridge. You do not have to do much to make them a race car. Yes, the brakes are not up to today's standards, but in the day, they were as good as many GT race cars.
     
  18. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #15 miurasv, Apr 21, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
    Thanks, Dyke. There are a number of differing stories about this car. According to Christian Huet it was built by Mauro Forghieri and his Team based on chassis 12467 as the Works Group 4 Prototype Daytona with a steel body with aluminium bonnet and boot (I thought the doors on earlier Daytonas were aluminium too.), extended wings to accommodate 8" wide wheels at the front and 10" wide at the rear, Plexiglass windows apart from the windscreen, larger diameter headlights, transparent cowling replacing the bumpers, stiffer suspension springs, sturdier anti roll bars, 120 litre fuel tank fitted, specially tuned engine with polished ports and moving parts lightened and balanced, straight through exhausts exiting under the doors and this is how it was sold to Chinetti as the works prototype late in April 1971. Pictures of the car at LM 1971 confirm much of the spec. I read somewhere else that Chinetti paid $11,630 for it in June, 71. Perhaps was that figure what Chinetti paid Ferrari, who got Diena and Silingardi to do some of the work, to convert it to the above spec for racing at LM 1971? A Comp Daytona, even used, would have cost a lot more than that. Another says Chinetti bought the car new in 1969 and it was Chinetti that did the conversion.

    So we have alloy bodied 12547 as the original Daytona Competition Prototype and possibly 12467, initially built as a road car, used as the very significant Works Design Study and Works Group 4 Daytona Competition Prototype? Amazing result at Le Mans 1971 too in coming fifth overall with only Porsche 917s and Ferrari 512s in front.
     
  19. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy Formula 3

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    IMO, there is no way they will get $8 million.
    Maybe $4 - 5 might be doable but $8 is still a huge reach for a car that has failed twice in recent times at around the $4.5 mark
    Just my 2 cents
     
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  20. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Steve: You know far more about the history of the car than I do. Chinetti paid $11,630.00 on check # 1933-, dated June 5, 1971 for " Full payment of 365/Daytona #12467 for Le Mans". It is possible this money paid was for both the car and the race prep, or for the race prep itself. The Certificate of Origin states the car was "Built April 1969". However this factory document is dated January 25, 1978, so you figure it all out. That is all I can contribute.
     
  21. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini F1 World Champ
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    See post #2.

    Marcel Massini
     
  22. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    #19 miurasv, Apr 21, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2018
    Alberto Pedretti of Wide World of Cars is said to have converted the car to Daytona Comp SIII specification from its original uprated specification in 1977. Engine in 1993 said to have been uprated to SIII specs with a new cylinder block using the rest of the original engine. Original block still with the car.

    The then owner in 2016 claims it to be the 2nd Prototype in the Keno Brothers video below. It will be interesting to see what Artcurial say about the car when it goes on their web site.

     
  23. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Steve: Most of what you posted is correct. Pedretti rebuilt the engine for the then owner Dave Gunn, finishing it in May 1979. Prior to Gunn's ownership, a previous owner had Holman-Moody (of Ford stock car fame) do lots of mechanical work. Gunn chose to redo all this to take the car back to Ferrari specs. Pedretti did install a set of P6 camshafts and high compression pistons, which were in the car when we had it. All this work was done around the original engine block. In January 1995, we broke the crankshaft and damaged the block (with today's technology the original block is definitely repairable). We rebuilt the engine around another Daytona block. We we sold the car, the original block went with it.
     
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  24. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Thanks, Dyke. It's great to get first hand info from someone like yourself regarding these cars where the history is usually as clear as mud. Was the replacement block a new one supplied by the factory or from a used road going Daytona?
     
  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    ...also was the new crankshaft you put in a new Ferrari supplied one or from a used Daytona?
     
  26. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    Steve: We bought the parts from a wrecked Daytona.
     
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  27. miurasv

    miurasv F1 Veteran

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    Thanks, Dyke.
     
  28. malcolmjl

    malcolmjl Karting

    Mar 27, 2014
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    And one of those no-sales was at Keno, where half the cars were conveniently one bid shy of reserve every time. I think it might even be a little lower than $4 million.
     
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