430 - F-1 leaks overnight? | FerrariChat

430 F-1 leaks overnight?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Bill ochrane, Jun 10, 2021.

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  1. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    My 2005 F-430 was having shifting issues. It would go to neutral at a stop intermittingly. The independent shop replaced a potentiometer and the problem was solved. Then after driving for a week or so there appeared on my garage floor under the pump a puddle about a foot in dia. of red ATF fluid. This happened overnight in my garage? When I first got the car I overfilled it and it kicked out the excess on my garage floor, so I thought the shop overfilled it too. I drove for about another week and all worked fine. Then a small amount leaked out again but only about 2 inches in dia. I thought it was just a little more of an overfill. The tank had the proper level. Then to my surprise, another large puddle about 12 inches in diameter appeared overnight after a drive. The tank is at the right level, but the fluid looks like it has air and foamy. Now it shifts crazy. 1st gear then try to shift and hangs in first. Paddle, paddle, and finally goes to 2nd or various gears. I'm going to bleed and fill. Why would it leak overnight and not while driving? HELP!
     
  2. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    Sorry, after the second "Big" leak the tank was low so I added fluid. Then drove it to find shifting issues.
     
  3. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,231
    Santa Clarita, CA
    Where is the puddle in relation to your car? Is it under the reservoir or under the transmission? Can you pull the bottom panel off to see where it’s coming from?


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  4. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    It's under the reservoir.
     
  5. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,231
    Santa Clarita, CA
  6. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,231
    Santa Clarita, CA
    The correct amount of fluid is checked by leaving your engine hatch open overnight after you drive the car. In the morning check the level. It should be barely covering the baffle plate inside the reservoir.
    I check mine by sticking my right forefinger in the reservoir and touching that baffle plate with the tip of my finger. The fluid should just cover your fingernail when the car is cold.

    If the reservoir has any more fluid than that, remove it with a turkey baster with a piece of hose on the end of it.


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  7. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    It appears to be coming from the tube in the cap.
     
  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Not heard of checking fluid the above way. With a cold engine in the morning , open the drivers door and let the system pressurize. Using a flexible Stanley tape or similar to dip the f1 tank, you should have 18 mm of fluid on the tape.
    With the tank spitting out fluid it sounds like you have let the level get too low and you now have air in the system, the fluid will now be aerated , this will increase the oils volume and it will come out the tank overflow. You are going to have to bleed the system to remove the air.
    With the air in the system , it may not be getting up to cut out pressure for the pump as you have a pneumatic/ hydraulic mix.
     
  9. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    Thanks all. I am going to bleed the system and use new ATF. But I'm still wondering what happened. Why would the fluid to leak overnight? And three times before it gets so low that air is in the system?
     
  10. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Overnight the system loses its pressure and the tank level rises, then overflows. There is a good video on u tube on bleeding the f1 system, you need a scanner to trigger the pump
     
  11. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 9, 2017
    2,270
    Jacksonville
    Full Name:
    RANDY
    If you are using your dip stick check your level it is wrong there was a bulleting from from Ferrari years back to the dealers fluid should be no more the 5mm above the plate inside the tank.
    I know went threw the same same hope this helps.
     
    Extreme1 likes this.
  12. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Get in the car. Close the door. Turn the key on..but do not start the engine. Allow the pump to run and then stop. With your foot on the brake. Shift gears..1st, 2nd, reverse. If you cannot shift gears at least 3 times before the pump activates..then your pressure accumulator needs to be replaced. If the diaphragm within the accumulator has ruptured you will get an over fill situation in the resiviour.

    Give that a try and let us know what happened.
     
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  13. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    My dip of 18 mms comes from the workshop boss at my main dealer, the worst that will happen if its too much is it will come out the overflow when de pressurised. He has his present problems as the level has been too low and air has got into the system. Mine has been on 18 mm for years and no issue
     
  14. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,265
    MA
    Full Name:
    John
    tbakowsky, thank you for an actual data point to test to determine accumulator condition!
    I had the same problem. Overfill. I was foolish enough to read and follow the owners manual! Called a good friend and trusted Ferrari Tech. He laughed and pointed me in the right direction.
     
  15. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    I'm going to bleed the system now. The UTube video of Normal Guy shows how, but does not mention these two bleed valves up by the pump?
    Am I missing something?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  16. Extreme1

    Extreme1 Formula 3

    Jun 27, 2017
    1,231
    Santa Clarita, CA
    I didn’t bleed mine there. I bled mine down on the right side of the gearbox. It has a silver fabric heat shield, with snaps, wrapped around it. I followed Dansupercarguys directions. Do you have a Launch X431?


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  17. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    No, I don't have a launch, but since all it does is turn the pump on and off I will disconnect the pump and apply 12VDC and run the pump like the launch program.
     
  18. RANDY6005

    RANDY6005 Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 9, 2017
    2,270
    Jacksonville
    Full Name:
    RANDY
    If it goes out the overflow should make sense why there is trans fluid leaking on the floor BOSS . Air in the system would not cause it to leak BOSS.
    Not all of these tanks are the same on all model years just a couple different years they had this issue. I am very very for from being any type of a expert on these cars just from what I have had happen to me.

    I do not have to ask a main dealer for anything Boss, have my on work shop manel my self and plenty of time to figure it out and do wright.
    He needs to check his F1 block very common issue they crack over time and leak maybe that is how there is air in the system.
     
  19. Testa

    Testa Karting

    Mar 28, 2004
    50
    If you do the pump activation in this way, how do you make sure you do not exceed the maximum pressure ? Pumping until the overpressure valve activates will not be a good idea. In addition you may want to activate valves which you also can not do without a tester. Would recommend getting a WSM and tester if you want to do the bleeding by yourself.
     
  20. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Very polite
     
  21. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,388
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    That will not work. The scan tool opens an closes select solenoid valves on the power unit during the bleed procedure. If you just power up the pump all you will do is over charge the accumulator and possibly cause internal damage to it.

    There are a few steps that must be taken to bleed the system properly, and to do this you need a scan tool capable of doing it. You also must have the shift actuator removed from the gearbox in order to get all the air out of that component as well. It is not a quick job to do correctly.
     
  22. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    I bled the system as best I could. Fluid is now solid, not milky with air. Took a drive and even though shifts much better it still fails to shift sometimes and will hang in a gear until I try shifting again and again. I tried the above instructions. After the pump stops I shift from N to 1, R, 1, etc. Every time I shift the pump comes on for about 1-2 seconds.
     
  23. Bill ochrane

    Bill ochrane Karting

    Oct 26, 2018
    202
    Galveston, Texas
    Full Name:
    William Cochrane
    If I turn the key on, the pump will run then stop. Leaving the key on, the pump comes on for about 3 seconds every 20 to 30 seconds.
     
  24. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    5,695
    Central NJ
    Full Name:
    Dominick
    One two seconds may indicate a bad accumulator as mentioned above

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
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  25. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,835
    Isle of man- uk
    Can you read the cut in/ cut out pressure. You need to be sure the pressure switches are working ok.
     

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