Brake performance question

Hard to diagnose anything from an internet post...

But, Assuming the braking system is functioning properly, the biggest variable in performance with ceramic brakes is typically how well the pads were bedded, followed by contamination on either the pads (including glazed pads) or rotors.

Ceramic brakes need heat to function properly, so while initial bite can be good, real brake performance can take a few rotations of the wheel for the heat range to increase. Once warmed and in operating range, braking action should be VERY good.

There's a lot of (fair) debate about bedding brake pads, and quite a few threads posted. My personal experience (now on 3rd set of rotors and countless sets of pads) is that proper bedding (vs. improper) can make an astonishing difference in brake performance. Believe me, the pads are not bedded at the factory...

I've also known folks who had their detailers get silicone based products/waxes/et al on the rotors, which can certainly cause some issues....

Wet performance is similar; even with conventional steel rotors, the pads will wipe the rotor. Wet conditions can cool the rotors a bit quickly as well.

 

I suspect one of the keys to understanding the brake performance you have experienced is the red-highlighted portion of the inqury you posted... you have been test driving a number of used Californias.

Aside from what Entropy has pointed out, it would depend on what the former owners and drivers of those cars did or had happen to their cars' brakes. Unless you are really dead-set on buying one of the cars with "poorly-performing" brakes I would simply eliminate those cars from consideration and take Entropy's advice on how to treat your CCM brakes. It's also very good that you are at least doing proper test drives and evaluating brake performance before buying.

I've been lucky with the brakes in my car and cannot claim to have done anything unusual to keep them working well. I also don't think it would be worthwhile to figure out why some of the cars you tested had "bad" brakes since we do not know what happened to those cars, people can do silly things - so just avoid those cars and let their sellers sort it out for themselves. CCM brakes work really well when everything's right and they eliminate a huge amount of unsprung mass, and are responsible for a good deal of the fantastic performance of the car.

Good luck and I hope you find one that does it for you.

 

Dealers don't necessarily fix "problems" in pre-owned cars unless deemed really necessary. Compromised CCM brake components usually cannot be fixed. The cost of replacing the CCM rotors and pads can easily eliminate any profit from those resales.

As for sensitive brakes, it could also be that you are simply not used to the CCM brake action. I recall being surprised at how much initial bite my brakes exhibited and then got used to them pretty quickly and no longer felt they were sensitive.

 

Brembo CCM brakes should work as well or better than cast iron ones. The initial bite of CCM pads is from friction and will feel different depending on the pad being used. Google "ccm brake pad initial bite" and you can read about it to your heart's content.

 

I'm new in the Ferrari-Chat, I have a 612, 2008 GTC version with CCM’s. My 612 has 54k KM on the clock and the CCM worn alert appeared on display. My Ferrari dealer urged me to replace them due to security which I would agree with. Has anybody similar experiences with duration up until they are worn out? It seems to me - it’s quite an costly undertaking to replace all 4 of them, but this is what they seriously suggest. Any comments on this topic are appreciated.

 

On my Portofino:
1) The Ferrari Brake Prefill system (FBP) tightens up the pads when it thinks you are going to apply the brakes. The effect on pedal firmness is small but noticeable.
2) What made a big difference was bleeding. The brakes are supposed to be difficult to bleed thoroughly.
3) Get steel-braid brake lines (Formula Dynamics).

 

The pads have probably been bedded in differently. In other words, the one which needed a lot of pressure, needed proper bed in. Few cars come from the factory with properly bedded brakes. Some dealers do it prior to delivery.

 

I think you should replace them. 64k km is not bad at all. Note that you might have better luck with answers regarding the 612 if you ask in the 612 forum.

 

mph

There's a good chance that the pads have been glazed due to "easy driving".

Here's a good procedure for getting the brakes up to snuff if they are glazed.

20 easy slowdowns from 100 mph to 50 mph. Apply a max of 25% pressure. Accellerate gently between breaking.
After the last easy slowdown, run the car @ 60 mph for a minute.
Now do 10 stops the following way.
Full throttle to 115 mph and slow to 50 mph. Use more than 75% brake pressure. Make sure that you do not apply the brake so hard that the abs is activated. Use full throttle to get to 115 mph between each slowdown.
This procedure will get your discs glowing bright orange.and get rid of the glazing as well as gas out the pads properly.
After the last slowdown, run the car at steady state speed for 3-5 mins @ 65 mph without applying the brake.
Lastly do 5 stops like the first 20 stops.
After this procedure, stop at a gas station, truck stop or the like and let the brakes cool for 30 mins or more. Have a coffee or something.

 

I will let it replace anyway, since security goes first in place. Just thought to hear from others, if they had similar issues as most of us have been told initially they hold for ever if not used for racing.
Anyway, thanks to all who responded - greetings, Limbini

 

That bedding procedure reminds me of what Hawk advised when I started using their carbon-kevlar HPS street pads almost 30 years ago. Hawk wanted an immediate series of high-speed stops. I said that I don't live by a racetrack,that I live in a neighborhood of 25-mph streets,that I need to warm up the engine,and that I need to drive for about an hour to reach roads where I can go that fast. I bedded them like any other pad-gently-and they are still my favorite street pad.

 

The process I described originates from the Pagid RSC and RSL line of pads. What's neat about this process is that it can be done on a motorway without much hassle, as it does not require the car to come to a slow speed. The initial stops are very gentle and aims to "mate" the disc and pad properly as well as smooth both surfaces. Then then actual removal of the glazed layer and adding of the new pad layer is done using the hard stops. The final soft stops are for smoothing out the transfer. This process is for glazed pads. If the pads are not glazed, the procedure is basically the same, but with 15+5+5 stops rather than 20+10+5. Glazing take some energy to remove.

 

So 115 mph on Copenhagen motorways is no big deal? I wish the officers of the law had that attitude in Silicon Valley.

 

Not saying it's a good thing to be stopped. You'll have to take a driving test and pay a fine. But that aside, fact is that we have plenty of stretches where a bed in like that can be done. Don't forget that you're not running that speed continuously. We got a new law in November which means that we now get 18 days in in jail for exceeding 125 mph though

 

One good thing using the Ferrari for business travel in Germany during corona times: autobahns are empty and there are no speed limits.


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