Will there be a NEW manual transmission Ferrari model?

I'm not saying it can be done in a couple of weekends. But I know it can be done. And I don't think it would be any more expensive than buying whatever $2xx,xxx manual model. $150,xxx for the high miles 458, $7-10k for the 355 transmission. Leaves $30-40k. It could be done for that. So you know for a fact that the ABS sensor on each wheel and the TCU are integrated. eDiff is integrated with the transmission so that's out. You also know for a fact that the body control module is integrated with the TCU? Emissions. Yeah not sure that's going to receive input from the transmission. Those guys with the toyota with 458 engine obviously couldn't get it running or on the road based on their drifting videos.
Emissions with a transmission delete. See this is what I mean. Making **** up so its sooooo complicated that it's impossible. Spare me.

 

The toyota with the 458 engine is running with stock 458 computers, active handling, traction control and passes emissions? NO! It uses a Motec which isn't passing an OBD2 plug in test. Already said you could do exactly that in a 458 if you actually read anything I have posted.

Yes, every ecu in the car is linked.

Just because you have zero understanding of what you are talking about does not make your fantasy a reality.

 

Lets look at some of the mechanical aspects.

355 trans is a completely different bolt pattern than 458 so you'll need an adapter for that.

adapter for crankshaft/splined output

Longer trans input shaft $$$$$

CV outputs on trans in different locations (?)

Shift rod for 355 trans will go directly through 458 a/c compressor, guess we can toss that.

Shift rod will interfere with starter mounting flange on 458 lower crankcase. Just chop that off?

Shift rod may interfere with drivers side motor mount

Fabricate new trans mounts

Fabricate pedal box for 3rd pedal assembly and clutch master. This alone is huge. The whole interior and front trunk is coming out.

Starter cancel switch for clutch pedal

Cut hole in floor, mount shift box, fabricate new center console.

Fabricate new shift linkage and make a tunnel for it. Move all wiring/hoses in the way.

Remove paddles

Need smaller brake pedal and new dead pedal if there's room for it

Parking brake? Would normally be activated when shut off in 1st gear.

Fabricate new trans cooler lines.

This on top of deleting/reprogramming all ecu's that are looking for DCT trans.


Yes anything can be done but this job is a huge expense. Both time and money.

 

Yeah your articles: "how to rewire 458 ECU into refrigerator alarm clock" and "the intricacies of inter module communication in the 458 and 488" just left me so inspired I had to post.. *rolls eyes*.
They're linked but not on a functional level. If you have a failure in the suspension ECU at 120MPH, the entire car doesn't shut down. You get an error, but it doesn't shut the system down. It's still functional however. I admit I haven't sat down with a 458 to map the output of the modules or peer at the wiring diagram. I'd love to.. but I haven't seen it published yet.. I'm thinking mimicing the device output to fool the system into thinking its still present.

I'm sorry I missed the Motec reference... as far as the shift rod.. thought of that and I have an idea how to get past that.

 

I love how this is easy and you know how to do it all yet still need everything explained to you.

Roll your eyes all you want, you're the one presuming to know how to do this with no basic knowledge of how the car works.

Torque based system, pedal position equals power request which filters through all other systems, abs, active handling, traction control, trans, diff to arrive at a final axle torque request delivered by the ecu.

Remove the tcu and end up with faults on all modules for no communication. All of these are working together not as separate entities.

Traction control program looking for 7 forward gears, now 6 with no reporting.

Does speed register properly?

Engine ecu looking for tcu but no manual trans calibration exists. Who is writing software from scratch so these modules can work properly with no tcu communication?

Oh, and if you finally get the above figured out (which you won't) now hope the 20 year old trans designed for 268ft lbs holds up to 400ft lbs in a heavier car.

Again, unless race components are used, not happening.

 

People said the same to Columbus, Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, can't land on the moon. etc. It can't be done. You're just one of many.

I hear what you're saying to me.. and what you're NOT saying to me. Specifically exactly HOW each ECU does this. You don't know. You're not telling me anything specific. Give me a reason why it can't work. Blah blah blah you can't. Blah blah because vague reason. I know the system does all the above. Everyone does.
I'm betting it's ECU specific with a Canbus or equivalent. Tell me WHY it can't be done.. Specifically tell me why. Because you DON'T know. So you can't tell me why I can't do it.
Or are you Assuming the system functions as it does. I get it that the TCU is making those calculations based on input from ABS sensors at each wheel. No ****. Delete the ECU and mimic the output to the dash.
If you can't specifically tell me why it can't it won't work.. then the input is no better than some guy driving a Prius sipping on a latte saying "it can't be done"

I'll happily admit I'm wrong.

 

i know soemone who was converting a 458. Anything can be doen with cubic dollars. in thend even if you mate a 430 box toa 458 you still have this peaky mtoor designed to work with 7 closely spaced gears. the rub against the few 599 mnauals made by ferrari exactly relates tot hat.

then you have all those computers controllign the car, theyre designed to work with a predictable shift from another computer, not a human, that says a lot about many things that are wrong.

Anyway adding asticj to paddle car is not the cure. As i have said its not all about the stick thats only part of the equation.

However these lower reving low rev TQ turbo motors probbaly would work great with a properly integrated stick. The you would just have to deal with fixign numb non feedback steering and few other things.

 

For those who say a raw purist ferrai wont sell, I give you the F40. A car they sold what 1700 of and had to stop making becauise the low prod tooling just wore out.
How many technonlogicaly superior and more useable 959;s did they make?


Ferraris solution after the F40, make less of these desirable cars and just charge more, same profit less work.

What sperates a 288/F40 and F50 from an enzo and a laf. The first 3 are seminal cars, great in their own right not really superceeded. The enzo and Laf, like the techno 959 great the best at the time, always to be superceded.

 

What specifically do you want to know?! How each ECU does what?! Put together a logical question and I'll do my best to answer it. So far everything you've posted is mindless drivel.

Since you have it all figured out why don't -YOU- tell me how it's to be done?

You have full access to 100% of all calibrations in the engine ecu's and you will generate a calibration from scratch that needs no tcu input?

Reprogram everything for traction control and active handling for manual trans with different gear ratios?

Aside from all the mechanical issues you've managed to simply ignore, tell me, who is reprogramming everything to work with a manual trans?

And again, I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said-

"It would be a massive undertaking to do this and have it remain oem appearing/functioning"

"Big money either way."

"You think this will be done over a few weekends at anything less than obscene cost, best of luck to you."

"Yes anything can be done but this job is a huge expense. Both time and money."


-If you intend to respond to me start by opening your eyes and reading what has been posted. I'm not conversing with someone that ignores every point I have made and replaces it with things I did not say.

 

I'm working on that. I'll get back to you when I have something "more specific". Proceed to focus on what can't be done.

 

Ok so just to be clear you know nothing about what you know everything about? Thought so.

Again, open your eyes and read. I did not say it can't be done! I said it's a lot of work and very expensive.

Due to the fact that you have zero knowledge and continue to misquote me I am done with this conversation, with you.

 

Whatever. If I want to hear something can't be done and that I don't know anything but can't actually tell me anything in turn, you're the first guy I'll PM. Typical owner.

 

Wow you are thick. Again with "it can't be done". I build and tune cars, fabricate parts and program ecu's for a living.

Still, find me a shop that will convert an Italia to manual trans with oem functionality and appearance for 40-50k turn key and I'll buy a 458 and drop it off with them ASAP.

 

Have you done a 458's ECU?

 

FYI not thick.. Just belligerent and I don't care.

 

Heres some interesting perspective on a number of fronts. From how a car drives, to how different iterations of the same platform can feel very different to false scarcity and "branding'\

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/road-tests/a13043223/porsche-911-gt3-manual-pcoty-preview/

 

still not the original question but is GM building it; the forthcoming mid engine Corvette? not a Ferrari or Lambo but..

Sent from my SM-G930V using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

Im torn... I borrowed my little sister’s Focus ST for a few days. In and around city traffic, I would give my left leg for my Audi and its DSG. Everywhere else (on ramps, open country roads etc.) that manual made me fizz. Nothing beats getting heel-toe downshifts right. I wonder if F would ever consider a modern Dino... TT V6, lightweight, and three pedal sound perfect.

 

The possibility of a new Dino has been mentioned in this thread a few times. It would be the only car I could imagine Ferrari ever putting a manual in. The 2.9 liter V6 that is in the Alfa is a Ferrari design and would be perfect. Dino 296 sounds awesome to me.

 

New porche gt3 50% stick takeup in USA less elsewhere

 

Seems there are two ways of looking at this, first is the manufacturer (they would need to source a manual that was good enough, they are not going to develop their own). I have a certain amount of experience with blowing up transmissions and clutches with too much HP &TQ. I owned both a gated 360 and 430, and as much as I loved my 430 (forgive me for saying this) the 360's power band seemed better suited for a manual. Of course that is just my opinion. The next thing is the market itself. Would customers shell out 250-300K for a car with what most consider old technology. I often wonder how many people became Ferrari owners because they had finally made the F1 transmission that worked well enough in auto mode, and now they have DCT which makes auto mode even better. The realities of todays market are pretty clear (the new M5 is an auto), and the coming generations will care even less about shifting gears (they are to busy with their smart phones). Even on this forum you will find those who would not be standing in line to put down a deposit on the newest Ferrari offered with a manual. That old saying you only miss it when its gone (or something like that) is true since the number of manuals ordered (when they could be) seemed to dwindle down. I used to think that I will never own another Ferrari because they stopped making gearshift cars, and I was not a fan (at first they are growing on me) of the looks of the 458/488. I was wrong about that, and if you take emotion out the equation, you are left with a business decision, and making another manual (gated or not gated), would probably not be a good one. I have come to realize there is more to enjoying driving a car (when I take both the 4C & Evora 400 out in the same day), then having a third pedal.

 

The bottom line is performance cars are a niche anyway and manuals in a performance cars are simply subcategory, but as we see elsewhere a worthwhile and profitable one.

Did ferrari expand sales by offerign an AT undoubtably, but they have also undoubtably lost sales from the core by not offering a manual or for that matter a purist drivers car you could actualy buy. For sure they didnt care, but now maybe seeking extra sales and, perhaps wanting/needing to keep the core "brand" image alive enough to keep selling all the rest which are essentualy really fast comfortable easy to use Gt cars to the rest of their clintale.

Offering a hard core purist machine you can actualy buy makes sense. What did the F40 do for ferraris image in the dark 80's and it was not limited units. Do you think porche suv's which are essentialy Vw audis woudl sell in quite the same numbers if their sportscar brand image was not still so strong and if that sportscar image was not supported by core purist machines within that segement .

Manual transmsions are now either a crapbox cheap option for a cheap car in the third world, or a veru desired option in the performance car segment, an entertainment experiential niche option for the enlghtened.
That niche is not minor or irrelevant either to profit or brand image.


The GT3 is a niche within porche, but its the foundation upon which their current image is built, and within that niche a manual sells well, earns a profit keeps the faithful true and underpins the story. A manual basicaly expands sales within a high performance track backroad driver segemnt, the core of the sportscar brand. You know driver purists which are the core of a sportscar brand, the hook upon which the hat and coat is hung. We saw this with the manual Gt4 doubling cayman sales.

As to transmision ferrari dosent make theirs for the 488 anyway, its outsourced.

I agree the motor power characteristics have to mate well with a manual,(whither the 430 and 599 manuals which were a poor match) but the lower reving higher tq turbo mtoors are ideal for this.

Nor does a manufacturer need to develop an entirely new car, the manual purist car can be built of existing platforms as porche and others do.

lest look at it this way, most sportcar buyers are really buying agt car, which speds most of its life in traffic. Paddles make sense because they make the car simple and useable. The excuse for what is essentialy an AT is that its faster on track, but what % of these cars go tot eh track, and even then of the few that do what % of the machines bandwidth is sued on track.

Now if youre one of the old fashioned pursists, somone who drives open roads at speed, back roads etc for the pure entertainment of it, and if you so drive on road youre also probably not using 100% of the machines capability regardless, in this case a manual adds to the experience exponetialy. Or put another way each thing that isolates the driver from the machine takes away from the experince. Thats why we like chassis and steering that talk to you, a sonourous engine, and yes a manual.

For track, for sure a paddle is better/faster, for traffic too, everywhere else it sorta sucks if your driving for the sheer joy of the experince. Porche figured this out hence the manual Gt3, the Gt3 touring without a wing and the Gt4. Its also why they still offer a Na motor.

Frankly if its only all about performance, well youre not going to beat the electric ferrari, and when or if the tesla sportscar comes out, ferrari will be following with one of their own,. But we'll still want sound and pistons for the experince even if its slower, same with a manaul. A sportscar is about many things, and one of them is the art of the driving experience.

That being said I woudl never want my Mclaren senna with a manual, thats a focussed 2600lbs track car. But my 3200+lbs road sportscar, wouldnt want it without a manual, talkative chassis and steering, great sounding motor or stumning Italian design not comprmised by excess downforce.

Horses for courses.

 

Outside of bubbles like car forums like this, manual trans don’t drive car sales....impressive stats do...high HP, track and 0-60 times etc...manuals don’t excel at this.
Does Ferrari want to put out a low hp “drivers car” car like a Boxster, WRX etc in manual flavour? Maybe. But I don’t think they’re banking on it. It’s a tiny niche of a tiny niche.
The 911 platform is better suited for it as it’s so versatile.