Forza F355 article

I agree with you 1000% .....
Any limited run, highly strung car is going to need parts/service more often.
It also depends on how you use the car. Do you beat it senseless on track days? Then shes gonna need lots of TLC.... not to mention consumables.

Again, if you read my previous posts, I am in total agreement that the F355 is a maintenance heavy nightmare UNTIL the problem areas are sorted. Once the common core issues are addressed, the car is just as reliable as any other car with 109hp per liter and an 8500rpm redline would be....

 

Every single poster has had positive experiences, that has never been the issue or a point of disagreement. What has been the point of disagreement is that some want to bury their head in the sand and not acknowledge the flip side of the coin. Some of the most vocal supporters of the car also state the costs and engineering failures are higher than comparable cars and inexcusable for a car from Ferrari. I happen to agree. Forget the Honda comparisons, no one really expects that but to defend the valve guides, the exhaust manifolds, the exploding clutch slave cylinders, the engine management issues, the Spider top issues the short lived CV boot issues and the major service costs is denying reality. Many models have one or two of those but the 355 list is too long. Can they be fixed? Many yes, some no. Should anyone have to? Again the list is too long. For a do it yourself guy much of it may be OK and tolerable but that is a small minority of buyers. Some even feel it is a fair trade when paying full retail to do it all. That's OK too but to deny or down play their existence is doing a great disservice to prospective buyers and in the long run does a great disservice to the make and model.

The Lotus 7 was a total POS but what a great sports car. It needed a total reengineering of many systems but everyone knows and admits that. No one ever said otherwise.




P.S.
Some may be content with Ferrari building a car with a long list of issues like we have been talking about. I am not. They can do better and should do better but they will not unless people say "F NO". They didn't really get away with it with the 355. It cost them quite a few customers, it cost them a lot of money and they addressed much of it for the next model but that is not reason to not remind them it matters.

 

Don't talk about reality! This is fchat. Noooo.

That being said, if anyone knows of a nice 95 GTB please let me know as I am loosely considering one.

 

Fair enough. I do agree. The 355 was born premature. But clearly most cars have been corrected by now (or scrapped becuase they lit on fire).

I think what some are saying is a well sorted 355 is a decent car...from what I read it seems that no matter what the 355 is doomed in your perspective.

Then again, you see them in various states of disrepair...but for those of us that took up the challenge and spent the money & blood to make a great looking car run as it was supposed to, it seems harsh to bash it for the things many of us have corrected.

That's not rose colored glasses. It is a hard earned fact. ( and maybe some of us ARE thin skinned as a result! haha. )

 

A couple points:

1) I'd guess you have made a fair amount of profit working on these cars and good for you - I mean that. So, be happy they are not perfect.

2) All good in life comes with some bad. I've yet to meet a smoking hot girl that was not crazy . Yet, I still do not run from "High Maintainence" woman just like I won't run from the 355.

 

I am sooo glad I have a 348.

Interesting thread though. Thanks Brian for your comments. Love it when the myths get skewered.

 

Truth be known we make more money changing oil than doing valve jobs. Drive down the street and count how many how many oil changers you see and how many major service shops you see.

Happy customers are good repeat customers. When you have to sit them down and calmly explain why the newest big estimate it is only going to last for so long.

 

Fair enough Brian (for point 1). But you did not address point 2

 

It's not fair that you guys are insinuating that Rifledriver "doesn't like the 355". He's putting his experience on the line.. experience that measured in decades gives measures much more credibility to an argument than some diehard fan. As it reads with no investment in a car.. he's putting an honest opinion on the line, that coincidently doesn't read in my eyes as hating the model. It reads as honest.

I don't get why it isn't OK to say the car has flaws. BFD. The 360 has its variators and precats. I never tell anyone NOT to get a 355 if they really want one. If they understand the risks then they're an ideal owner. IMHO that is the owner that should own any Ferrari. The only nitwits that are truly turned off by the 355's "potential flaws" are the nitwits that really can't afford a Ferrari to begin with. They're thinking about resale from day 1. Its the same nitwit that buys a 360 and worries everyday the Variator will die.

 

Yea. some of your points are valid. If you buy a high production Ferrari in hopes of reaping some huge financial reward on resale you might want to reconsider.

However Curt, according to Forza and the quote you have above, you do not exist.

hahaha

I think that is a part of the backlash here.

 

I don't think that anyone is denying that the 355 has flaws, for me the negative response is more in respect of the tone than the message (not talking about the article here). Brian's experience is one of many, and he seems to take issue when people have a different experience or disagree with him, even politely. Maybe some on here are a bit defensive, but not all, and being accused of being "delusional" by someone who doesn't know you, your experience, or your car can make you a bit defensive.

You said "I never tell anyone NOT to get a 355 if they really want one. If they understand the risks then they're an ideal owner. The only nitwits that are truly turned off by the 355's "potential flaws" are the nitwits that really can't afford a Ferrari to begin with. They're thinking about resale from day 1." - THAT is a neutral opinion. I've never recommended a 355 to anyone myself, but I've also never said don't get one. I just talk about the major issues and costs of maintenance, then let them admire the car and hear the Capristo sing.

Anyway, this thread is going in circles

 

Geeze...unless the are truly an enthusiast, preferably one with at least SOME wrenching skills, I honestly wouldn't recommend ANY Ferrari to a friend. You have to have the proper constitution to put up with the flaws, routine maintenance, and the high cost of both. Most folks don't see that part of it and would be much happier admiring from the sidelines. May seem a bit counterintuitive, but in general Ferrari ownership is not necessarily a wise thing to endorse -- again, depends upon the situation. Us 348/355 folks are obviously just a bit unhinged

FWIW, the Forza article did little to diminish my view of the 355. I still think it's a great car and always will. No one's sour opinion made me decide against buying my 348 because I fell in love with the car all by myself and don't give two #$#%s what anyone else thinks. 355's are the same way. Take pride in knowing you are a good steward of a beautiful, fast, yet occasionally cantankerous steed!

 

Honestly, I don't understand some of you guys.
What do you really expect from a 20 year old Italian supercar?
It is going to cost you money to maintain. If you can't handle it, don't buy one.
However, when it is running well you will be the happiest guy in the world!

I just did the sums on my wife's 2011 BMW convertible which we are putting up for sale.
In the three years we have owned it, it has cost $600 per week in depreciation and finance (and we financed less than half of it). That does not include servicing, registration, insurance etc.
$600 per week! Over $30,000 per year! Yet I still think it is a great car and will be sad to see it go.

Compared to that the Ferrari has been chicken-feed to own.

My 355 had a list price of around $330,000 here when it was new in 1998.
That is more than the average house cost at that time.

What some people seem to forget is that you are maintaining an ageing, exotic, expensive car. Just because you were fortunate enough to buy it cheap 20 years after it was built, it doesn't mean it'll be cheap to maintain now... You are still maintaining a very expensive car.
Even worse, an old very expensive car.

I learnt this lesson the hard way when I bought an aircraft which cost $1m new for around 1/5th of that when it was several years old. Right from the start my engineer said "remember, you are maintaining a $1m aircraft, not a $200,000 one".
I laughed, but I should have listened to him. The bloody thing nearly ruined me!

 

I have no problem with different opinions until they are accompanied by disparaging remarks, outright lies or dumb, illogical suggestions of hidden agendas. I do respond in kind. Don't want a fight? Don't start one and we'll be fine.





vrsurgeon, you really are incorrect there. Many of those "Nitwits" are very successful people who can easily buy you or I. Many were long time multiple Ferrari buyers. Both of the owners printed in the article are good examples and why they made print. Both are long term owners. Both have had multiple Ferrari's so were able to better speak in context. One still owns 4 Ferraris including the 355 so his interest was hardly resale. He by the way drives the wheels off of all of them and he buys cars. I don't think he has ever sold one. The other still owns the 355 so I suspect his concern had nothing to do with resale either.





There is nothing in the world wrong with being an advocate of the 355 as long as we don't deny the realities of long term ownership to prospective buyers. That after all is the purpose of the article

 

Understood and that wasn't the type of nitwit I directed the remark. The nitwit I'm referring to is the one that comments "I've found this really nice 355 (or 360) for $25k locally.. can anyone tell me how much insurance is and how much an oil change is? Or, 5 posts later on how much depreciation the car will experience, he posts that he only wants to own it for 3 years and then sell it.. but doesn't want to loose any money. They're hesitating because they can buy it, but don't have the liquidity to OWN it. You've read posts here as I have. Completely different type of nitwit. Completely.

BTW. I'm not easily bought.. seduced.. yes. But its Very very.. ex-wife kind of expensive.

 

Well there are enough of that type to go around.

 

Hee hee I did laugh at the last line!! Nice to see ur head isn't in the clouds any more if you can pardon the pun

 

Just to be clear I thought a good mechanic had figured out how to do the cam belts on the f355 with out dropping the engine now.
I remember reading this some where or am I mistaken ?
Sdr

 

+100 After having owned 3 F-cars (granted, no 355s or 360s), I have come to the conclusion that there are only two ways to own a Ferrari without feeling as though you are tip-toing on eggshells with every damn drive: 1. you have so much money that it doesn't matter what breaks or how often, you just fix it. 2. You are like John (FerrariPilot) and are talented with a wrench and can fix the car yourself. Otherwise....forget it; you'll always be driving with one eye on the road and one eye on some freaking gauge.

 

Well - Are obnoxiously-agressive service intervals and terrible access really design flaws though? To me, thay probably knew exactly what was goiong to be required of these cars service-wise when they built them. No one seemed to care. Kind if makes sense though as the buyer of the car new certianly had plenty of expendible income.

To me, a design flaw is something that shows up after miles get racked up or real world use starts to take its toll. Not the same thing as wallet-crushing service reqs.

I still find the F355 and 348 quite desireable cars. It just sucks that every three years ya gotta cough up about 15% to 20% of the cost of the entire car(used values) for an engine pull. Sure, you can do it yourself.... but ya need a pretty darned good tool set, lifts, etc, etc.

What will happen is that buying prices will keep going lower until they reach a point where the used buyers will be able to buy them and "deal" with them. I'll wait

Pretty much sums it up. Interestingly, the gauge that gets the most looks would be the odometer! Each drive gets you closer to that pesky "replace everything" service req

They really are pretty good cars per se. They just need a lot of frequent attention. It just has to be worked into the budget. Im at that point where I could probably swing a 348 or a lower-cost 355. But... I cannot "swing" majors every 3 years. And, that doesnt include other "bits" that may need sorting in between

 

Good grief, please don't......

 

You really think F355 prices will continue to drop?