Are sports cars too fast now? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Are sports cars too fast now?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by TheMayor, Feb 14, 2011.

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are sports cars too fast today?

  1. Yes! This is just crazy! Where will it stop?

  2. Could be. In the wrong hands these are lethal.

  3. I'm not worried about it.

  4. No way! I want more speed. Don't stop me now

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Hawkeye

    Hawkeye F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Sep 20, 2009
    7,463
    Wouldn't you say the percentage of road going cars that participate in the game of power and statistics is insignificant? Even if you include Camaro, Mustang, etc...I think the overwhelming trend, design and marketing push is towards reliability, cost and fuel efficiency for cars and towing/hauling capacity and torque for light and medium duty trucks as key attributes to lure buyers into showrooms. It's an interesting question.

    Regarding obsoleting ourselves, there is always the safety and state revenue factor to consider. Today's cars are much safer and the tax revenue is cherished by the stipend cashing apple polishers working city halls and states legislature. If the state could have RFID tags embedded into speed limit signs and another into the car CPU to govern speed on each vehicle and roadway, I think they would turn their back on that technology as it reduces state receipts.
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    There was a lot of concern about that in the late 60's too but legislation for smog and the inability of technology to meet the requirements without cutting HP in half or less took care of that.

    I suspect the world wide energy situation and environmental concerns will this time as well. Most of these cars come from Europe & USA where pressure by environmentalists is pretty strong. If we keep going down the road of global warming, carbon credits, Mid East unrest, bla,bla,bla I think it is only a matter of time before pressure is brought to bear on the class of cars you speak of.


    BTW We bought a 328 instead of a 360 because I felt we could have more fun driving a slow car well and fast than a fast car slow. To me driving an Enzo is boring. Long before I get anywhere near making the car work I am going stupid fast. Just isn't fun.
     
  3. SrfCity

    SrfCity F1 World Champ

    #53 SrfCity, Feb 15, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
    I don't think you're going to see this as the target customer is becoming the ultra wealthy and they play by a different set of rules. For the rest, look around you on the road today and see how many small cars are now are out there? With the whole green movement, hybrids, alternative energy cars etc. the HP race is becoming more obsolete for the masses. I don't think that cars bought by the ultra rich are going to fall victim to the same fate as mass produced cars or what happened to muscle cars for example. HP and speed for the wealthy category will continue as long as they're buying. The proof is already out there. Look at what's going on in Europe if you need to see into the future a bit. To the point, Pagani announced today U.S. market entrance with the new Huayra.
     
  4. NoFerrari

    NoFerrari Karting

    Nov 24, 2004
    165
    Oakland,Ca/LA
    Full Name:
    Benny
    Is it a modded Honda S600?
     
  5. DriveAfterDark

    DriveAfterDark F1 Veteran

    Jan 1, 2007
    9,148
    Norway
    #55 DriveAfterDark, Feb 15, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2011
    +1

    You can't even drive a 300 hp sports car to the limit where I'm from and from what I have seen (except, cliché alert, Autobahn, where you can use huge power to make quick passes in 120mph+).

    Reminds me of home audio system. You really don't need huge speakers. But when the neighbors and family is gone, it's good to have that extra punch.
     
  6. mixxalot@yahoo.com

    [email protected] Formula Junior

    Feb 9, 2006
    357
    Carmichael, CA
    Full Name:
    JD
    My BMW M3 is wicked fast but the reason why I would take a Ferrari even an older one like the F355 or 360 Modena is that Ferraris are sexy true exotics with style, persona and race track handling not just top speed. Heck my M3 is almost as fast as a Modena or F430 but not an exotic. Same goes for Aston Martin. Aston Martins are sexy beasts much like Ferraris but not the fastest cars out there. After all, how often can you drive 100 mph in traffic or drive to the track? I love exotics like Ferraris, Aston Martin, and Lamborghini for their wild eyed unique looks and fun factor not pure speed. Everyone here in southern California has a BMW, Mercedes, or Lexus so they are ho hum boring. Except for the BMW M cars and AMG Mercedes that is but they look too much like what every rich 20 year old kid is driving!
     
  7. GrayTA

    GrayTA F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jun 25, 2006
    15,112
    Deep South
    Full Name:
    PDG
    I voted that in the wrong hands they are lethal.

    I agree with most of what is said here as well. I think that at some point someone is going to come and start to point out a number of high profile accidents that have claimed lives due to the abuse of the power that some cars have and then Governments are going to step in and take it all away. I hope that doesnt happen, but thats my current prediction. There is only so far that you can push the envelope in acceleration...and we have GOT to be getting close.



    PDG
     
  8. Mr. Francesco

    Mr. Francesco F1 Rookie

    Oct 10, 2010
    4,934
    Full Name:
    Mr. Francesco
    Well put. I would imagine it's alot greater than we would expect. I've come across several sports/super car owners who didn't even know general knowledge about their vehicles.

    This looks like 30hp of pure fun. I would love to take it for a spin :)
     
  9. Fred2

    Fred2 F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jan 2, 2005
    16,967
    nj
    In the Muscle car era, the cars were affordable to the masses.
    By definition, Supercars are not.

    What is annoying is that Speed Limits in the USA do not reflect the capabilities of today's cars.
    In the recent past, Anti lock brakes, stability control, 4 wheel disc brakes, radial tires, crumple zones, etc have all become common place, and yet the speed limits here are lower than they were before the "energy crisis" of the 70's.
     
  10. Crawler

    Crawler F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2006
    5,018
    That's generally true, but it's arguably offset by that fact that drivers are more distracted than ever before. Also, I would not put crumple zones, airbags, occupant protection, etc. in the same category as the other things that you mention. Once you're relying on "passive safety" / occupant protection, the accident has already occurred, so these should not militate against speed restrictions.
     
  11. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    5th choice is missing...

    ..."No, but where the h*ll can you properly drive one now-a-days!?" LOL
     
  12. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,336
    On the Limit
    Full Name:
    Dino
    As an FCA driving instructor, as well as an instructor for a number of car clubs, there is a general rule of thumb.....

    Driving ability is inversely proportional to amount of HP purchased.

    In other words the majority of students I have encountered can barely handle the power in an old Fiat, let alone a 500hp Ferrari in anything other than a straight line, and many have the ego to match.

    The only requirement to getting a super car is a deep pocket. Talent or skill is an option. A majority of these guys end up scaring themselves in any situation other than a trip to starbucks or the valet stand. All of these cars should come with a driver's school, so that the owners can actually enjoy the cars for their intended purpose.

    So, back to the original question.... "is there too much hp"? I don't think so. When I DD an F40, it actually started to feel 'normal', and made my other cars feel slow. However, in reality, how fast does a car need to be to go to the coffee shop?
     
  13. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    agreed, but as everyone knows, but rarely says aloud, owning a premium $ sportscar, like a Ferrari or other, is 'potential' capability, that the car 'could do' if so inclined....and of course image when roll'n up at starbucks! LOL

     
  14. mfennell70

    mfennell70 Formula Junior

    Nov 3, 2003
    579
    Middletown, NJ
    One of the things I love about the 360 vs. the GT3 I had before is that the 360 is involving at all speeds. It's still too fast to drive properly on the street but it manages to be fun just puttering around, something I could not say was true of the GT3.

    One of my friends, who owns a supercharged Elise, a Noble, and an M5, just bought his fourth S2000. He keeps coming back to them. I think a lot of the appeal is just how approachable they are. A 240hp S2000 is fun at much more reasonable speeds than a 400hp, 2400lb Noble.
     
  15. Ingenere

    Ingenere F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Dec 11, 2001
    6,336
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    Full Name:
    Dino
    Maybe it's potential for you. If it was potential I was after, I would just have a model collection! :D 'Image' is for those with self esteem issues.

    The idea of an exotic car for me is that it makes the mundane, special. They have the ability to take you somewhere special in your mind. A drive to the market and going through a tunnel can take you to the tunnel in Monaco in your mind.

    It is about attacking my favorite road, and taking my favorite corner 20mph faster than I have ever done before..... and knowing that I could add another 20, that puts a smile on my face. It ain't about rolling up to Starbucks or showing off at the valet stand.
     
  16. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    i highly doubt you take a Ferrari to it's full potential on the street...nor would i....and so is the meaning, that it's potential makes the regular drive easy, or mundane if you'd like....my own daily driver is well over 300hp, and would be crazy to take to it's potential on the street, but the potential is there, and makes it special to me....
    ...as for image, i dont think all owners have this as thier main reason for owning a F-car, but it certinly is a factor, and simply part of the ownership experience, not being necessarily a bad thing IMO

     
  17. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    There are some very fast street cars out there. There are several things that get people into trouble and IMO just how smooth they feel at speed is one of them. People often have no idea just how fast they are cruising along in for example a Veyron, CGT, Enzo etc.
    They also have little idea how something like a small bump can disturb downforce at speed and generally roads are a lot bumpier than tracks. Electronic aides are an issue as well and those who assume they don't need them can get into big trouble very quickly. Generally people don't understand the laws of physics or what happens when you contravene them.

    I strongly advise a track driving course and working up to the limits of a car slowly in a safe place. Spinning your P 3/4 on a track is a lot different than spinning it on the street.
     
  18. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

    Jul 28, 2010
    7,569
    Calgary, Canada
    LOL this too could apply to the local soccer moms in SUVs, once the snow hits in particular......overly confident traction to go, underestimation of stopping power and limit of grip

     
  19. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,352
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    Given current prices, pretty much any idiot can buy a Ferrari 360 or Porsche 996 Turbo now.

    It would be nice if speed was exclusive, but it isn't.

    And, for those with cash, the AMG models for sale at the Mercedes dealer today would leave a 360 or 996 TT gasping their exhaust.

    We're really long past the point of diminishing returns on horsepower. I agree with the OP -- the performance comparisons on modern cars are boring and effectively irrelevant.
     
  20. VTChris

    VTChris F1 World Champ

    Aug 21, 2005
    13,259
    That's pretty harsh
     
  21. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
    11,285
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Dave
    A little off topic, but I agree. Growing up in NE in the 60s, most cars were one wheel drive. A few had positraction. You had to learn to use the throttle carefully and you got instant feedback on the lack of traction. As kids, we used to look for empty, snow packed places where we could spin or apply opposite lock. We just did it for fun but learned valuable car control lessons as a by product. Today's AWD vehicles, especially those with electronic traction aids, can go on slippery surfaces better than we ever dreamed, until you have to turn or stop, although even those moves are better than 40 years ago. So after a snow storm now, it is almost always SUVs I see in ditches or on their roofs. Too much confidence. Some years ago, during a storm, a lady in a Subie coming the other way broke traction and was headed for me. I put my truck in the ditch to avoid a head on (I was going very slow, it was slick) and she bounced off my side into a ditch on the other side. When the cop gave her a ticket, she complained that she was going the speed limit!

    Dave
     
  22. Tony K

    Tony K Formula 3

    Jun 7, 2006
    1,769
    Toledo, Ohio
    Full Name:
    Tony K.
    It's nice that they're fast; the real issue to me is that they're TOO BIG, and TOO HEAVY! :(
     
  23. I'm gone

    I'm gone Formula Junior

    Feb 5, 2006
    618
    Phoenix,az
    Full Name:
    Brian
    Really? This is like my wife saying "how much hp do you really need?" everyone knows there is no such thing as "to much hp"!!!!!
     
  24. Infidel

    Infidel Guest

    Jan 19, 2011
    269
    Southeast, USA
    We're mixing a lot of apples and oranges.

    The original question was, "Are SPORTS CARS too fast now?"

    I say, no, they aren't.

    I am excited to be living in what I consider is the greatest time in the history of the performance automobile as it easily eclipses the fabled "muscle car era" of the 1960s and early '70s.

    Today, cars are safer, more reliable, less expensive, easier to maintain and offer more genuine, real world performance than at any time in history.

    My 500+HP daily driver is an absolute joy. Every time I get in it and fire it up, a grin spreads across my face. I don't have to blast down the highway at 180MPH to appreciate its performance capabilities, either. They come through loud and clear at even the most mundane times.
     
  25. DGS

    DGS Six Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    May 27, 2003
    60,052
    MidTN
    Full Name:
    DGS
    Horses aren't just for speed. ;)

    The EVO's 0-60 time isn't something I use on a racetrack.
    But it does come in handy when trying to merge on the freeway.

    I don't really care how far above the century it can run, but it's ability to get from zero to 30 in a car length is handy, and it's ability to go from 25 to zero on a dime with nine cent's change comes in *very* handy, on the street.

    The one thing I always liked about race tracks, compared to the street, was that you could expect that most of the other drivers were paying attention.
    You can't count on that, on the streets.

    I see people on the roads who will pay $300 a corner for "track capable" tires, and will still come to a full halt before going around a third gear corner.

    It's not that the cars are too capable.
    It's that the drivers are too *incapable*.
     

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