Twin Turbo F355 'Down under' | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Twin Turbo F355 'Down under'

Discussion in 'Australia' started by cuspub, Aug 31, 2004.

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  1. Aircon

    Aircon Ten Time F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Jun 23, 2003
    100,524
    Melbourne, Australia
    Full Name:
    Peter
    What about changing the diff ratio so that it revs at 2000rpm at 100kph instead of 3000? That would have to make an incredible difference to longevity with the turbos making up the difference in pick up? V12s and Porsches work at that engine/road speed.
     
  2. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic

    hhhmmm..... Some people will never understand. I dont own a ferrari and will in the next month or so, but I do own a 520HP Toyota GT4. I spent $35k plus on it, and it would beat about anything on the road. Ive pass 355,360 without trying and........

    It owes me a HUGE F+++ING SMILE on my face and I think, money spent well. I think owning a Ferrari is not an investment, not at all. And I am sure the owner of this 355 Twin Turbo has a bigger smile on his face when he drives it.
     
  3. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    I do understand quite well I think. Your total outlay for a hotted up Toyota is quite small relatively, no offence intended. When you start with a 355 Spider as a base you've already invested a fair bit...so what would give you the biggest smile is my question....

    A potentially hard to sell and insure, modified 355, performing beyond its design limitations in many areas, that possibly owes you nearly as much as a 288GTO or F40 by the time it stops as well as it goes...or a real 288GTO/F40 that you can sell tomorrow if you chose, for only a small % extra outlay??

    Granted in Australia, the no LHD makes some of my case irrelevent, but LHD can be done with some hassle.

    Don't get me wrong, I like the 355TT, and I want to understand it more so I can possibly even sell the kit to some of my customers, there is obviously a market for it.
     
  4. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,899
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    I think this hits the nail on the head...sort of. If you want lap times like an F40 the best thing to do is buy an F40. Personally I will never have my street car on a road course so lap times mean nothing to me. Because I'm not doing any high speed driving, the stock brakes work great, they will clamp hard enough to lock the tires at 100 mph once every few months when I'm misbehaving. The shocks didn't have all the feel I wanted, but that was a simple fix. But what I really hated about the car and wanted to fix was for it to accelerate like an F40. Now it does. I love it, it does everything I want it to and them some. On the track an F40 would kick my a$$, but since I'll never be there, I'll never need to watch it happen. On the highway on a roll-on, I'm pretty sure I'd win and I'm also pretty sure it wouldn't bother an F40 ower, because he know that if he got me to the track it would be a very different story. It just comes down to want matters to you.
     
  5. riccajus

    riccajus Rookie

    Mar 3, 2004
    48
    Australia
    Full Name:
    Justin Riccardi
    Just a question about the track day. Can the general public come and watch? If so what time does it start? Details would be greatly appreciated
     
  6. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
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    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    Yes. it's free to come and watch. Signing on is at about 8.30 and track opens soon after.

    I forgot to say, there'll be F40 road car, F40LM, 360 GT with sequential box, my 360C speciale, 360C, maybe an F50, not sure, and many others. All sorts from old smoky 12's to the latest greatest.
     
  7. ton

    ton Rookie

    Sep 3, 2004
    46

    The clutch did not slip at 520hp, it did not even slip at 392.4kw at the tyres.Which in the old terms is close to 650 hp at the engine.After nizpro supplied new modified injecters ,remapped the motec, then put a nine pound spring in the wastegate and mapped it with boost . It shocked the s..t out of us .No way where we expecting to make this amount of power on 9pounds.The actual figure was 392.4 because the fuel pump could not deliver enough . The driving sensation is that it wheelspins in 1st and 2nd more with a lot more rush in other gears . Im on holidays until 5th oct would like to show you nizpros work some day.With a bigger fuel pump nizpro say 420kw at the tyres .Me Im a pig in s..t.I asked nizpro to post dyno sheets for all to see.
     
  8. cuspub

    cuspub Rookie

    Aug 31, 2004
    33
    Hi guys, have been waiting for the Ton twin turbo 355 to be fitted with larger injectors and modified ECU tune.

    Ton has already mentioned it, however I figured I should advise the current state of play with the proposed Nizpro Twin Turbo F355 kit. We are almost there as far as completing design but must note that a production version will look a little different with a vastly more professional appearance. Indeed, it will offer an almost factory look.

    Btw, thanks to ferrarifixer for the comment regarding the existing appearance. Yep, it's good, but when it comes to a production effort, Nizpro take a few extra steps.

    Anyway, the car sounds absolutely awesome - a little like a 4-cylinder Superbike with a sports exhaust - if you know what I mean. It's loud - but not overly so - and what makes it sound motorcycle like is how the revs come up at such an incredible pace, it is quite unbelievable.

    Anyway, to the power graphs at hand.

    The graph with three lines incorporates a mauve line indicating the kit in place but with just 1 psi of turbo boost pressure and a power output of 240 rear wheel kW (321hp), the next line up is at 6psi (which will become Nizpro's 'entry level' kit, and which now shows at the same 6psi boost as the car had when the turbos were first fitted) and a massive 356 rwkw - 477 hp - however this is with the larger injectors.

    The final graph is of course the Level 2 kit with 9-psi boost and 392kW. Understand thought that the factory fuel pump was at its limit and we believe that with a higher volume item the figure will climb to perhaps 420rwkw at the same boost - and this will be substantiated once Ton gets back from holidays.

    A second graph shows the boost, noting that whereas the amount of boost is relatively low at up to 4000rpm where it is 4psi, understand that this is a high compression engine and there's no lack in power at this point. Also note that given we are only pumping in 9psi at the top end, that there is no massive turbo whoosh or the like and on the road it is quite progressive.

    The final dyno graph shows new 9ps1 graph. And what a smooth line it is. Very progressive, very impressive. If I don't say so myself.
     
  9. Phantom1

    Phantom1 Rookie

    Sep 1, 2004
    1
    Dave from nizpro here, Went for a ride in it last night and it goes like an absolute rocket. 1st 2nd and third gear just zipped past to the 8000rpm limit. also felt very smooth and linear with no feel of being turbo charged. Although i have never been i a ferrari befor i have been in several extremly fast cars, due to were i work.(1000hp GTR Skylines)
    Was a very plesent experience and can recommend to anyone that gets the opportunity to get in this car do it.
     
  10. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    didnt feel like a turbo???

    The graph shows that at around 4000rpm there is a bit of a kick!
     
  11. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    I like what i see and hear, i would buy a kit when and if available. Any idea as to when you will be marketing the complete bolt on and ready to go kits? And what do you think a ball park figure would be price wise? or is this at a to early stage?
     
  12. cuspub

    cuspub Rookie

    Aug 31, 2004
    33
    chaa, as soon as we have final details, we will advise the full package information; pricing, availability, parts contents, power, et cetera.

    But for now please check out the attached images noting we have photoshopped the background to make the car more prominent.

    By the way, if anyone wants to speak with us directly, please send emails to:

    [email protected]

    cheers.

    cuspub
     
  13. ton

    ton Rookie

    Sep 3, 2004
    46

    the rush of the 355 is added with a BIGGER BIG rush not a bang. a normal 355 has got a high 12 second pass in it and many write ups have proved this, which is fast. That rush which is not a bang feeling is now a 10 second 1/4 mile rush .porsches have bangs,nissans gtrs have bangs . this 355 has a very drivable rush.393kw at the wheels is a lot of power and the 355 sits on the road very stable with that power being put down .
     
  14. maurice70

    maurice70 F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2004
    4,308
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    maurice T
    Just as a guestimate, what sort of power would you achieve out of a 360 with the same twin turbo setup? anyone?
     
  15. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    Why did you go for a twin turbo? and not a single?

    I know twim turbo's sounds better as a cool factor. But I was under the impression you had twin turbos for 1 for the down low RPM and the other for the high RPM.

    Where the technology today with ballbearing turbos a single ballbearing one is meant to be better?

    Or am I totaly wrong? and why?
     
  16. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,899
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    The simple math is 5psi= 33% gain, 10 psi =66%, 15psi=100. It usually comes out a bit under that though for a few reasons. The 355 looks like 56% at almost 10 psi, pretty good. The 360 should be similar, it just comes down to how high you can run the boost without detonation. Again that should be similar I would think, so you'd be looking at similar gains if you did a similar system.
     
  17. mk e

    mk e F1 World Champ

    Oct 31, 2003
    12,899
    The twilight zone
    Full Name:
    The Butcher
    Great project, beautiful graphs! Mine does the 1st/2nd gear thing, but I'm geared lower, it must be an increadable rush is your car. For what it's worht, or the turbos I've driven, it seems like they get less like a rush and more like a bangin the 10-15 psi range. Everything I've been in with over 15 is very hard to manage on the street, everything under 10 felt pretty good.
     
  18. stevep

    stevep F1 Veteran

    Jan 19, 2004
    8,345
    Geordie Land
    Full Name:
    steve

    those photos are wicked mate
     
  19. McLaren_boy

    McLaren_boy Formula Junior

    Nov 21, 2003
    358
    ATL but NOLA is home
    Full Name:
    Jonathan
    Twin turbo set-ups refer to two equally sized, but relatively small turbos, that spool up quicker than a single turbo of the same hp rating to provide better response. You are thinking of sequential turbos, for example the MrkIV Supra. In that case, yes, the small turbo (which can spool quickly with the small exhaust pressures of low rpm) takes care of low-end power, and the larger turbo (which takes more revs to spool) takes care of top-end power.

    Basically, TT set-ups are chosen for drivability reasons, as a large single turbo can *usually* make more power than a twin turbo set-up, but the trade-off is it takes along time to spool up because it it so large, and when it does spool up, all the power hits at once, which can cause traction issues, and make the car hard to handle, especially if you plan to take the car around corners.

    Large turbo technology is definitely much better than it was, say 15 years ago, but you still can't get around the fact that twin turbos will give a much more linear power band.
     
  20. zakeen

    zakeen Formula Junior

    Aug 29, 2004
    989
    Czech Republic
    That makes total sence, thanks for that.
     
  21. cuspub

    cuspub Rookie

    Aug 31, 2004
    33
    Hi all, Nizpro is now ready to start the party having established a production version of the rwin turbo kit, along with expectations of creating twin turbo kits to suit 360 and others.

    At this point a number of parts are being case hence no photos of the finished article are as yet available, however I can at least describe in detail what each kit contains:

    Two Packages are offered as follows:

    1) 575flywheel hp (355kW) at wheels (6-psi boost)

    · Pre-programmed MoTeC ECU M800 with plug in loom adaptors (can be upgraded to include traction control, Lambda, logging and so forth).
    · MoTeC loom and associated fuses.
    · High-flow 4-spray fuel injectors.
    · 2 x High-flow Garret GT roller bearing turbochargers.
    · 45mm Turbosmart wastegate.
    · 2 x custom high volume tube and fin intercoolers with cast tanks.
    · Thermatic fans on each intercooler with On temperature of 28c and 22c Off via MoTeC switching.
    · Custom large volume Air Cleaner box with low restriction K&N filter element mounted under bonnet vent and associated tubing, cast in aluminium in either polished or powder coated finish depending on customer’s requirements.
    · Turbocharger exhaust manifolds 3mm stainless steel or cast (depending on application (depending on catalytic converter).
    · Same with cast stainless steel wastegate plumbing.
    · 2 x Cast aluminium pipe from inlet manifold to intercooler pipes.
    · 4 x 76mm rubber ‘hump’ hoses (intercooler/inlet).
    · 6 x 76mm silicon rubber hoses (turbocharger to intercooler and turbo to air cleaner plumbing).
    · 20 x stainless steel hose clamps.
    · 2 x aluminium weld on dash-10 sump fittings for turbo drain back hoses (depending on quantity we will cast a higher volume CNC machined sump with integral drain back holes).
    · 2 x braided stainless steel turbo drain back hoses.
    · 2 x braided stainless steel turbo feed hoses.
    · 4 x braided stainless steel water feed and return hoses.
    · All copper washers, banjo bolts, T-pieces, gaskets and hose clamps to suit above.
    · High-flow dual inlet and twin outlet 3-inch in and out stainless steel muffler.
    · CNC laser cut turbo-mounting bracket.

    Indicative current buying price: AU$42,000 + shipping and insurance.

    2) 650hp and 400 rwkw (9.5 psi boost)

    As above plus:

    · High volume package.
    · Modified programming.
    · Modified wastegate.
    · High volume fuel pump.

    Indicative current buying price: AU$47,000 + shipping and insurance.

    For those who would like to know a little more about the company behind the product, please refer to the web sire: www.nizpro.com.au.

    We look forward to hearing from any interested parties.
     
  22. ferrarifixer

    ferrarifixer F1 Veteran
    BANNED

    Jul 22, 2003
    8,520
    Melbourne
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    Phil Hughes
    That's great guys. Excellent response time too.

    Have you tried running with Elf fuels. They do a great range that really make a difference, there's one called TurboMax which would be ideal for your jobs....

    And...are you still coming out to calder on sunday???
     
  23. cuspub

    cuspub Rookie

    Aug 31, 2004
    33

    Not sure if Ton is back from holidays, however I know he is champing at the bit to get the car to a race track - any race track!!!


    cuspub
     
  24. ton

    ton Rookie

    Sep 3, 2004
    46
    l get back from holidays on the 5th of oct . the car will be avaliable after that date. the first time it will see the track will be the drags. l really want to see how fast it will go on the quarter mile.
     
  25. Chevarri

    Chevarri Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2003
    764
    In a rose bush.
    Full Name:
    J'aime
    I'm dying to see this car on video from an inside view, and maybe a good ole' fashion drag race! VIDEO would be marvelous.

    Have any runs been done with race gas on the stage two kit?
     

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