360 - Cat issue or something else? | FerrariChat

360 Cat issue or something else?

Discussion in '360/430' started by Ghostdiver, Apr 27, 2024.

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  1. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    Mar 18, 2005
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    Wally Hollar
    With starting a new job, finalizing my parents estate, and just life in general, the most I get to do lately is look at my car on the way to and from. Every now and then, I get to devote some time to it. Case in point, my 2023 annual service started in November....

    The good news is the car is back together after may cooling system issues, and an unscheduled belt change. Checked and rechecked everything going back together. Fired her up for the first time a few weeks ago. Car started and ran without issue...sans one. Exhaust on the left side has a slight "lumpy" sound...sort of like a high lift/long duration cam that I'd throw in a Chevy 350 back in the day. Didn't think much of it. No Check Engine lights or anything like that so, on to test drive. Checked the bank angle and it's at 660-662. So it seems timing isn't an issue. Test drive was uneventful...until it wasn't. All of a sudden, Check Engine comes on. No change in drivability though. Get home, check codes. Random multiple misfire/misfires on 5 through 8. Strange, cause it drove fine. I just attributed it to when I lightly cleaned the engine afterwords.

    Went for another test drive later that night. No Check Engine lights, but when I came home, I opened the bonnet like normal, saw a tinge of pink under left heatshield I just made for the convertors. Right side was normal. There was some spirited driving, but none that should make the converter glow. Again, no Check Engine, or anything else strange. Figured I had a plug (new) or coil (new in 2016) acting up. Pulled the coils and plugs on the left side and check them. One coil spec'd different than the rest, so I swapped it with one of the good coils I changed out back in 2016. Put the car back together so it could sit a week while I took care of life.

    So, here we are today. Windy beautiful day when most people should be out playing with there Ferrari instead of taking it apart like me. Anyway, I fire it up and take some thermals. Not what I expected...

    All cylinders on the left side were about even with the exhaust temps off the head. Headers were within a few degrees of each other, so no fuel or ignition issues, but I still have the loppy V8 sound from the left side. Right exhaust sounds like a proper Ferrari though. So, I won't bore you with more storytime, but what do you think about the exhaust temps? Any ideas on the exhaust tone?

    Car is a 99 with no precats, running original injectors, OEM headers, new plugs (2024), and newish (2016) coils. ECU tune w/delete for CAT ECU's and rear O2 sensors. Tune was also optimized for high flow cats which I am curently running AP 100 cell sport cats. As far as the timing goes, before I pulled the belts, the scribed marks on the rear of the cams all lined up with the caps, except one. It was just outside of the mark. When I put it back together, all four cams were lined up to the caps.

    Link for exhaust sound
    https://youtube.com/shorts/hd8NzadpxuQ?feature=share

    676F Left cat inlet
    858F Left cat outlet to muffler
    660F Right cat inlet
    706F Right cat outlet to muffler

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    Left inlet
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    Left outlet (side profile)

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    Left outlet to muffler (top profile)

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    Right inlet to cat
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    Right outlet from cat to muffler
     
  2. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    May 20, 2018
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    Any codes?


    How are long term and short term fuel trims?


    How does car drive and pull through rpm range?
     
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  3. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    No codes.

    LT/ST didn't look out of spec but I don't remember what they are. Will check that later

    Car pulls strong to redline. Actually, stronger than before to be honest.
     
  4. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    I had a glowing cat issue… I might have fixed it w new header to cat donut gaskets. But i changed a few items when it went away.
     
  5. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #5 Rifledriver, Apr 28, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2024
    At that temp if you keep running it you will destroy the cat if you have not already.
    Guns do not fire all on their own any more than a cat overheats on its own. Something must make it overheat. The multiple misfire code is telling you its not running correctly. Figure that out and the cat will no longer overheat.
     
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  6. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    I used a squirt bottle to check that each header outlet was hot …. Make each hole sizzles.. this can rule out- bad sp plug coil fuel inj.

    intermittent misfire.. but no codes… might want to have trev check your tune… my stock tune had some corrupt data…….

    gl….

    if all else fails see a pro who won’t charge you the price of a Camry to diagnose.

    I’d help if I was closer.


    Other items/
    Grounds good disturbed?
    Bad fuel?
    Low battery?
     
  7. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    lemme send you some test coils... I changed my coils out last year even though they were good. that way can rule out aging coils..
     
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  8. anotherred360

    anotherred360 Karting

    Jan 10, 2015
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    Does the cam that was adjusted match the bank with the misfires?
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    While that is possible it is so low on the list of probabilities leave it until you gave up on anything else being wrong.
     
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  10. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Good to know rifle…. My stock tune had some corrupt data.
     
  11. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    Might reach out to him as well. First order is pop the back covers off the heads and look at the cams just for S&G's.
    Thermal showed each cylinder was registering around 200 or so just off the head, But just in case, there should be a box of new coils showing up any day.
    As far as the other issues go, no grounds disturbed AFAIK...
    Fuel was fine before, but filled up anyway from "quality" station. Same place I get for my other cars and didn't experience any issues.
    Battery is on a tender and I've got a remote voltage gauge showing charge voltage as well as running voltage
     
  12. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    #12 Ghostdiver, Apr 30, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2024
    Your stock tune or the Trev improved one? I've been running his tune for about a year now and everything was okay.

    Common factor is timing....looks like I'm checking cams again. I did remove the plenum to have it powdercoated so I'll double check all the bolts etc to eliminate them being loose.
     
  13. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    The coils were replaced in 2018 but I have a new set crossing the pond now, but I appreciate the offer! Pulled my old coils and spec'd them out just for giggles too.
     
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  14. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    Agree 100%...although Alec Baldwin might have issues with that statement! Anyway, the misfire codes are strange. Have come up twice, no change in drivability or engine tone. Now I know that the 'puter detects missfires that you gun and jet exposed ears don't but just seems odd that there is no change in character.
     
  15. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    Yea, I see a phone call to Mark over a Sphere in my future....
     
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  16. RedNeck

    RedNeck F1 World Champ
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    Have access to a smoke tester?
     
  17. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    I’ve got a cheap Amazon smoke tester.

    good point.. intake gaskets?
     
  18. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    only thing I took off was the plenum, but it is a 23 year old car too! Wonder if my SWAT buddy can get me a smoke grenade...
     
  19. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Vacuum leak can cause a very lean condition which cause high temp exhaust


    Spray some brake cleaner around the intake manifold etc and hear if engine changes rpm etc ..

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
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  20. Ghostdiver

    Ghostdiver Formula 3
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    Have you priced brake cleaner lately? OMG, that stuff used to cost about 1$...now it's north of $3 for the cheap stuff!
     
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  21. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    Agree but seems like fuel trims would reflect lean condition???
     
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  22. one4torque

    one4torque F1 Veteran
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    I went thru something similar… no codes, but glowing factory cats… and occasional slow down light…

    I eventually put in new donut gaskets and swapped oem cats for 200 cell aftermarket cats.. and glowing cats and slow downt light went away.

    I surmised—

    either new donuts fixed lean cat cond


    Or oem cats were bad and plugged causing over heating..

    in any case that was my exp….and fix.
     
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  23. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
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    Yes and no..if a vacuum leak always (meaning hot and cold) your short tem definitely would show them at idle and then go back to normal ..so long term may not be affected

    If heat related vacuum (where the leak is smaller or larger depending on heat of engine) would be hard to catch since short term would adjust quickly and long term would probably just be little off due to averaging. especially when you consider both temp effects of the expansion and when off idle maybe getting masked

    All theory but a three dollar can of spray can lead to an answer lol

    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
  24. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

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    #24 flash32, Apr 30, 2024
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2024
    good point..if you have a leak in exhaust .. O2 can be sucked in before upstream o2 sensor and cause the computer to think it is lean and the fuel trims will show dumping of more fuel which actually make rich condition coming out of exhaust ..which can make cats glow as well ..


    Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
     
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