Why track?

I have thought about it, but that makes the car even less useful than even my F8 or 911. The 911 is great because only car guys know how special it is, so I can park it without too much concern. The F8...draws a lot of attention, good and bad. But I use both for daily errands. I love driving to the track, wringing every drop of fun I can out of them, then driving home in them. No towing necessary.

But for more distant tracks like Laguna Seca, I tow or ship anyway...it will eventually make sense for a strictly track car. Maybe.

 

It is fun and it is hard to argue what is "more" fun.

That being said I believe with MX-5 being cheap, light and less powerful, you can get much closer to exploring the limits which reveals another layer of fun.

On the track with an expensive and too powerful car such as the F8, 99% of the drivers will be barely scratching the surface of what can be done.

 

I think your main point might be true. I'm not sure if it's 99% that wouldn't reach the limit on track, but it's a high percentage. That said, my problem now isn't finding the limit, it's dialing it back to find seconds here in there and sliding less on entry and exit. And I thought I was pretty fast...until I met Herrick Huang at a Ferrari Track event. He was absolutely blisteringly fast in his million dollar SF90 spider. He was so fast I got a new shirt afterward that says "World's Okayest Racing Driver". HAHA

I mean, let's put it another way, if you had the means, and money wasn't the problem, wouldn't you WANT to drive a fast Ferrari on track to its limits? I'm telling you, it is absolutely exhilarating!

 

This is my life now...and you know what? I'm OK with it. HAHA. I'm not as fast as some guys, but I'm getting all I can out of my F8 and having a blast while doing it
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Gee...I thought I was the world's okayest racing driver but now I guess I'm not even that...

 

I applaud you for actually "using" your Ferrari, in a world of paint correction low mileage to retain value etc, that's rare and a breath of fresh air..

 

Agree. If you haven’t scared the piss out of yourself on track, i.e. done some fast off course excursions, and spun a few times, or come breathtakingly close to a wall you are nowhere near the limit. A fast lap is a pretty violent thing. I cannot imagine getting close to the limit in a car without a cage and 5-point harness.


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I've been off a couple times in the F8, just learning the track and where the limits are. It's one of the reasons I track. You've got runoff area in case you make a mistake or miscalculated the braking point. I did have to replace some PPF on my rocker panels, but otherwise I came away unscathed

 

You have bigger balls than me. I’ve raced for many years and I’ve tracked my 458 (once). Cannot imagine flogging it the way I do my race car. Would be afraid of injury or death because I know what “on the limit” really means.


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I know what you mean. I've been wheel to wheel for 20 years and tracked before that. I'm enjoying slower cars as I driver faster. HPDE guys in fast modern streetcars really have big balls. I don't go anywhere near a limit unless surrounded by a well built cage and full race gear with HANS.

 

I have a race harness installed and use it with a HANS device. Safety first


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Also...and i can't emphasize this enough. There is a LOT of fun to have at 8/10 or 9/10 speeds. Just dial it back a little and you're getting 95% of the fun with 95% less risk.

 

That set-up is perhaps not even as safe as OEM especially if worn with HANS. There is nothing harder to do that build a safe dual use car because of all the compromises between street and track. HANS function and HANS/harness fitment is a whole discussion by itself and only the quick fit pro is HANS approved. The QF pro has a different belt design to capture the HANS wings. Your pic looks like the porsche 4pt and it is not HANS approved. In a crash you can be worse off because of belt dumping.

I would do some research. You might be better off with a 6pt. parachute set-up. Have you seen this document from Schroth? Sitting in car the HANS always seems to be right. A crash is very violent and many things have to come together for good HANS function. This is a minimum and we have not touched on containment.

An F8 can do 211mph. 80% is 168mph. For my race class my fully caged C5Z06 racecar has no aero and restricted motor about 340rwhp and I can do 160mph at Daytona. Your car and your body don't know when you hit the wall that you only going 8/10ths or that this was just an HPDE. The biggest problem with the modern car is it is super fast with lots of HP. In 1990 the hot Ferrari was the 348 with 320HP. Your F8 has 700hp at very close to the same weight! OEM safety systems are survivable to about a 50G pulse or a 50mph delta. Racecar safety systems have documented data for 200G survivable crash and many in the 100G range.

There are ways to mitigate risk. For example watkins glen has blue armco and no runoff for most of the track. But there are areas like T1 with lots of runoff so you take more risk there and maybe take it a bit easier at T9 with little room and partly blind. You can run a dessert track where an off might mean you plow dirt for a long way vs. VIR where the grass is slick and you will make it to the wall. Pick where you go off. VIR uphill esses much better to leave to the right than to the left. Know where it is better to go off straight than correct and hook yourself into a wall like at sunrise and sunset on Buttonwillow.

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HANS specifically says 2" or 3" harness straps, I use 3" and it fits fine inside the wings. I do have to make sure the strap is inside the wing before tightening down, but that's become second nature.

I don't know any actual race track you would hit the max theoretical top speed. I'm hitting 160 at the Ridge with their half mile straight, a better driver might hit 170, but not any more. But that's not the most dangerous part. It's the high speed turns over 100, and frankly where I'm losing the most time. Errors there are the most penalized...and I make a "business decision" that I'm OK losing time there. And that is essentially the same whether your in a Miata or a Ferrari. The race prepped Miatas are taking those turns faster than I am, so that's a higher risk technically

 

Works fine with a 3" harness according to HANS. This was all installed by my local motorsports shop


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Please don't die!

I think you and the shop are wrong. If you crash and ASM is activated the device defaults to a 3pt. This can cause belt dumping off the HANS and you will loose containment and can be injured. HANS stops one injury the fatal basilar skull fracture. BSF does not occur with 3pt systems because of crash dynamics. So in essence you are using a HANS for a non-event and increasing the risk of injury from belt dumping. A modern 5+pt. harness needs to be used with HANS because of those crash dynamics. The topic is very complex. Do the research for yourself.

Most motorsports shops started off as hobbists. There is no motorsports safety school or barrier to starting a shop. Safety in motorsports is the wild west. I have seen too many bad installs from "motorsports shops." You mileage may vary.

This is from Schroth on the QF pro:
<<Schroth's revolutionary Quick Fit Pro is the world's first 4 point harness that is designed to be used with a HANS Device in your stock seats! Now the safety and peace of mind that come from driving with a HANS device is available to the Driver's School and Open track day participant.

The secret behind this revolutionary design is the integration with the vehicle's existing safety system and an innovative geometry maximizing effectiveness of the HANS Device. Conventional 4 point restraints do not join at a center Cam Lock, they are sewn to lap belts leaving them almost 6-8 inches apart from each other. The design of the Quick Fit Pro is such that both shoulder belts angle in towards the Cam Lock facilitating use with a HANS Device.>>


There are 6 Scroth 4pts models: https://www.schrothracing.com/products/tuning-Harnesses

4 models say this: << Please Note: This harness is not compatible with HANS or any other head and neck restraint devices. >>

1 model , The porsche schroth 4pt does not say one way or the other but IMO can't be compatible because of the potential shoulder angles unlike the QFpro. QFpro works with HANS because of the fixed shoulder belt angles.

1 model with special design is HANS compatible the QFpro.

 

I actually have a 6 point harness, the Profi ASM 3x2, I just didn't install the anti submarine straps because I don't think it's necessary. The Porsche model is indeed not homologated but that's not the one I have. Thanks for your concern, but I'm not too worried about it. I'm strapped in pretty good. HAHA


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BTW, I don't want this to sound like I'm poo pooing wheel to wheel racing in a Miata. I have friends that do this and I'm 100% sure they're having a great time. But it's different.

For example at The Ridge I'm doing MAX braking into turn 1, to get from 160 to about 110...any higher on entry and I'm in a high speed slide. But Miatas, I don't even see their brake lights for that turn. They're just lifting. I have the brake again for turn 2 (about a 60-70 mph entry) and that's when I see their brake lights fire up finally. I'm braking HARD in 4 different spots at the Ridge, into turn 1, into the carousel (turn 6), into turn 8 and before the Ridge Complex at turn 13 (their version of the corkscrew). Because of the power these points all become max braking zones from 100+...where Miatas and S2000s are usually just lifting or just jab the brakes quickly. It's a different experience...both are extremely fun, but quite different.

At Laguna Seca, turn 1 on the "straight" you have an inside line and an outside line. Most cars go flat out through there. In the F8, when I took the inside line, I caught a little bit of air and the rear tires chirped on landing...that scared the CRAP out of me. I didn't have that problem on the outside line, so that's what I did from then on out. It's a different experience in a fast car. Harder longer braking, after harder and quicker acceleration.

I absolutely how manageable the car is though. Whether is rotating the car on entry with trail braking or on exit with power oversteer, it just does what I ask. It's the most fun I've ever had driving a car!
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From Schroth. Please rest easy fatbillybob! HAHA



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Couldn't have said it better!

 

agree! Still doing all that travel racing with another racer sharing a 53ft. Semi with shop etc etc. I’m very close to the end myself but looking in to vintage as a way to scale out racing mellow before calling it a day.

 

Me thinks you are talking to too many other HPDE dudes who are making it all feel safer than it is. Not saying don’t track. Just saying it isn’t in the same zip code as racing or at going 10/10s and it isn’t safe at all if you are really pushing yourself.


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Their experience is just as thrilling as yours and different mostly in that their experience is much safer. In some part because of speed but mostly because they are race prepped cars. I sense you understand this and have convinced yourself you are being safe. But if that F8 doesn’t have a proper cage, seat, harness set up it isn’t. Be careful dude.


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You think wheel to wheel is safer than an HPDE day in a fast car? I'm not sure I agree with that. When I raced karts in California (TAG125 class), your competitors were actively blocking and trying to induce mistakes. It was easy to miss braking points or get the lines wrong because of traffic and unexpected moves from opponents. To me the biggest cause of incidents were interactions between drivers. You take the wheel to wheel action out...and the number of incidents goes down dramatically. That doesn't mean there aren't incidents in HPDE obviously...I've been off many times myself. But I've never seen a car roll in an HPDE day. I'm sure it's happened...but that's gotta be rare. I can't see an HPDE day in a fast car being more dangerous than wheel to wheel racing in any category