Zandvoort 2020? | FerrariChat

Zandvoort 2020?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Bas, Jun 4, 2016.

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  1. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I've said plenty of times that one of the reasons why a GP at Zandvoort is impossible due to the impossibility to get all the people there.

    Today and tomorrow there's a Verstappen demo, expected numbers for both days are 100K...per day! That's F1 race numbers. On top of that it's ''nice'' weather, and there's some tennis thing going on as well which will attract plenty of people.

    The track needs significant investment, added grandstands etc, but it seems it may actually be a possibility.

    Track is now owned by one of the Dutch Princes, so perhaps some of his/their influence could make something happen.

    I remain a bit skeptical, but one of the things that I thought was one of the biggest issues, seems to have been tackled.
     
  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I hope F1 goes back to Zandvoort one day. I have been many times watch GT or touring cars races there, and really enjoyed it.
     
  3. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Bring it on. My first ever GP 1975 ,Hunt (Hesketh) beats Lauda!Went back again couple years later for a bit of amateur racing .Remember those Camaro's doing some runs outside the circuit the night before the race..amazing days.
     
  4. NürScud

    NürScud F1 Veteran

    Nov 3, 2012
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    That would be great. A beautiful, fast track.
     
  5. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    #5 Bas, Jun 5, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Correction, they had 50K people each day. Traffic a nightmare of course.

    Hearing Heineken and dutch state mines are looking into making the GP happen here.

    One of the solutions regarding traffic is to only allow VIP parking inside the town itself, close off both access roads and only allow shuttle busses, emergency vehicles and people that actually live in the town itself to drive in and out, + obviously any VIP parking holders.

    Main paddock will be used for F1 + likely part of the secondary paddock. At the old skid school GP2/3 and Porsche Supercup + any supporting series can park/set up.

    I think the main Hotel (opposite the track, it's rubbish but will do) will have F1 priority guests only, as goes for all remaining hotels (really not that many) in the town.

    Obviously track itself will need some investment, pitlane is quite small. The pitgarages proves to be the biggest issue, it's only 175 meters long...Hungaroring is tiny and that's already 310 meters. Pitboxes are actually shorter than in Monaco! Simply extending is an issue, too. Can't extend them towards the Tarzan as there is barely any room (see red and image 2, note arrow to braking sign, 100m!), and can't extend it the other way, because the track gets in the way too! (see blue and imagine 3 and 4) Perhaps a tunnel could be fashioned, but I may have a better solution:

    At the Tarzan (the popular first corner), there is a dune on the outside. What they should do is, dig a tunnel, extend the straight by some 100 meters, dig another tunnel and come straight through again. On top of the dunes there can be extra seating area's.

    This means that the pitlane can be (significantly) extended, the straight is extended so it'll actually be long enough to entice overtaking (making it only as long as hungaroring's straight, mind you, which is the shortest on the calendar (excluding Monaco)
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  6. singletrack

    singletrack F1 Veteran

    Mar 16, 2011
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    That is awesome for Max and the country. I hope the GP gets done. They will get 100k easily I would guess if they can pull 50k, mostly locally, for their star.
     
  7. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    NOVEMBER 20, 2017

    Government not involved in Dutch GP bid yet
    [​IMG]



    Dutch sports minister Bruno Bruins says the government will "wait" before getting involved in a grand prix bid.

    Last week, a feasibility study concluded that there is "no reason" why Zandvoort should not host F1 in the future.

    But the source Dutch News reports that Bruins told parliament that the study was merely an "initial exploration". He will therefore not ask the Dutch sports ministry for advice.

    Bruins said the next step must be talks between Zandvoort, Liberty and the FIA. "I will wait for that to happen," he added.
     
  8. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    JANUARY 31, 2018

    Doornbos plays down Dutch GP chances


    Former F1 driver Robert Doornbos has played down hopes of a Dutch grand prix revival.

    In recent days and weeks, off the back of Max Verstappen's meteoric popularity, Zandvoort and Assen have indicated their desire to bid for a Grand Prix of The Netherlands.

    But Dutchman Doornbos insisted: "The chances are still small.

    "Zandvoort has estimated the costs and Charlie Whiting has inspected the track in Assen, so that is positive news," he told Ziggo Sport Totaal. "But you cannot forget about the competition.

    "There are already so many European races and this year there are even three in a row -- in France, Austria and the UK," the former Red Bull and Minardi driver said of the controversial F1 'triple header'.

    "There are also several other countries that want Grands Prix," said Doornbos. "However, the F1 leadership are very enthusiastic about Verstappen, so it is possible."
     
  9. SimCity3

    SimCity3 F1 Rookie

    A proper challenging circuit. F1 should return with Verstappen. Well worth the ticket price.
     
  10. NEP

    NEP F1 Rookie

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    MARCH 15, 2018

    Zandvoort boss plays down F1 chances


    Zandvoort owner Bernhard van Oranje has admitted that a Dutch grand prix at the circuit is unlikely.

    In recent months, reports have suggested The Netherlands could be vying to return to the F1 calendar, potentially at Zandvoort or Assen.

    But Zandvoort owner van Oranje told the Dutch publication Formule 1: "We are talking to Liberty Media, but the chance that it succeeds is not that great.

    "Many countries are willing to pay any price for formula one. The fee to Liberty Media alone is around $20 million, which no circuit produces with ticket sales.

    "So there must also be money from investors and that is what we are doing now.

    "Liberty has said that they want classic European races, but at the same time it makes little sense to have so many races in Europe.

    "New markets like Mexico are more interesting to them," van Oranje added.

    "For me as a promoter it's a difficult story, but as long as there is a chance, we will continue."

    He also played down the fact that FIA chief Charlie Whiting recently inspected Assen.

    "Whiting has also been to us, so it doesn't mean anything," said the Zandvoort chief.
     
  11. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Having it at Assen would be a mistake. A boring hole that is in the middle of nowhere. Will need a telescope to see a spec of the cars. The track is ****, boring, tight....

    Zandvoort is also a tight track but it flows better, close proximity to airport etc. There is some issue getting to the track (the last few miles) for people staying outside of zandvoort (has limited hotel/parking etc), but a train ride there is short from nearby Haarlem (6 minutes to memory), there is a dedicated bus route from Haarlem right to the track that avoids all traffic...haarlem is a big city with many hotels, restaurants etc. At the last Verstappen day they had over 100K people there and it was all managed quite easily RE traffic, far better than expected and the traffic jam was little. It was a hot day as well so many people went to the beach which adds loads of traffic.

    My biggest issue with Zandvoort is the pits is too small and the straight is way too short. Either extend into the dunes or use the parking lot, extending the track (temporarily possible). As usual there's the issue of environmental idiots claiming some rare rat lives somewhere though...
     
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  12. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    before zandvoort then better imola back ! ! ! :) :) :)
     
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  13. tifoso2728

    tifoso2728 F1 Veteran
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    Yes . . . I think . . .
     
  14. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    The old Zandvoort (modified for safety, if necessary) would have been worthwhile. The new version is really a club circuit.
     
  15. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I love Imola. Especially in current layout with the deleted chicane. The chicane is great to drive but prevents overtaking
     
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  16. 4rePhill

    4rePhill F1 Veteran

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    Would it have been worthwhile to the circuit owners?

    The first thing they would need to do is make upgrades to the circuit, not only on the safety side of things, but also to the pits complex, the facilities for the fans, and the facilities for the media - That would cost @ 5~10 Million Dollars before a race has even taken place.

    Once the facilities and safety upgrades were completed, they would then have to find 20 Million Dollars for every race they put on. Liberty Media would be looking for a 3~5 year deal minimum, so that would be 60 Million ~100 Million Dollars on top of the improvement costs.

    So in order to just break even, the owners of the circuit would need to find @ 65 Million ~ 110 Million dollars over a 3 ~5 year period, that they are not going to get through ticket sales alone.

    Max Verstappen is generating a lot of interest at the moment, especially in the Netherlands, and there has been some increased interest in F1 due to Liberty Media's much publicised take over of the sport, but is it enough to make a race at Zandvoort profitable for the owners? - My monies on no, it's not.

    There's talk of the money required coming in from investors, but investors only invest to make money, and F1 races are not noted for making big profits.

    Added to that, the owners of Zandvoort will surely have noted the folly of Donnington Park in the past, and the (over) ambitious plans to stage F1 Grand Prix's there?

    Whilst the circumstances are completely different, the whole Donnington Park debacle perfectly highlights the risks involved with taking on a massive financial gamble to try to have F1 races at a circuit - If it goes wrong, it puts the circuit owners in danger of losing everything (Donnington Park was incredibly lucky to survive the F1 disaster that befell them, and it has taken a lot of years to restore the circuit back to where it once was).

    And look at the Silverstone situation.

    Silverstone pulls in one of the biggest crowds, if not the biggest crowd, of any Grand Prix on the race calender.

    The following of Lewis Hamilton absolutely dwarfs that of Max Verstappen, guaranteeing bumper crowds at his home race. Despite that fact, Silverstone have decided to terminate their F1 contract after 2019 because they simply cannot afford to put the race on - it's simply not profitable for them.

    That situation will also raise alarm bells for the Zandvoort circuit owners.

    Zandvoort, unlike Silverstone, might receive some financial support from their National Government, but there's no guarantee that the Dutch Government would see ploughing Millions of Dollars into a race circuit as being a wise use of their funds.

    An F1 race at Zandvoort might have been worthwhile for the Verstappen fans, and for those with nostalgic memories of the circuit, but it be far too much of an expensive gamble for the circuit owners!
     
  17. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    It's happening. Announcement soon I think.
     
  18. furoni

    furoni F1 World Champ

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    I like Tarzan..brings me memories of the true GOAT...how to overtake one of the best drivers driving a vastly superior car around the corners...

     
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  19. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Tarzan is a great corner. Sadly the challenge will be taken away when they've finished tarmacing all over it.
     
  20. Flavio_C

    Flavio_C Formula 3
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    Zandvoort is awesome.
     
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  21. jgonzalesm6

    jgonzalesm6 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    It's getting alot of push.

    Meanwhile, Monza needs $100million euro's to stay on the calender for 2020 I believe.
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    40m injection of cash found and more available. Track to be widened where possible, 3 tunnels changed, 5 grandstands (not sure in total or added), changes to paddock also.

    Qualifying I think will be fantastic to watch. Think a cross between Monaco and hungary. I managed a 1.10.8 with a 2019 car on Assetto Corsa (using a car mod that even current F1 drivers use)....but overtaking will be harder than on Hungary.

    Sadly the track will lose a lot of it's challenge by asphalting the lot!
     
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  23. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    A Zandvoort GP would be enticing enough for me to plan a trip to Holland. I've been there once (when there was no race) and yes, it is an awesome track. Brings back memories of Gilles on 3 wheels.
     
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  24. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I'm from zandvoort and still have friends there, so I'll definitely go also. Let me know if you are we'll grab some beers.
     
  25. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Noted.

    To be honest, there are a bunch of other good reasons to go back to Holland. So much history and culture in the whole country, it's awesome.
     
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