-Senna would have been champion in 94. Had he not crashed at Imola he probably would have won the race. Only Hill and MS went faster than Senna during that race and that was only after they were down to empty tanks (no re-fueling back then) Damon won 6 races and missed by one point, Ayrton would have done at least as well if not better. Apparently Senna had and idea about shenanigans going on with the Benetton and commented about how surefooted the car seemed. With Senna pushing the issue, MS would still have been banned by the FIA. -Senna would have gone to Ferrari, if the team did not turn around quickly he would have been looking for the best car and more titles. He could have done the same job that MS did with the team and the Ferrari was showing signs of life in 95 already. Also Berger would have stayed on so there would have been continuity in the car's development. Senna was 34 in 1994. He could have carried on until 2000 and still been competitive. Mansell was 39 when he won the title in 92 and Alain Prost was 38 in 93 when he won his last title. Senna lived and breathed Formula One and did not strike me as the type to be happy in retirement. He would have carried on as long as possible. The Champcar-IRL split had already happened so the opportunity to go to CART was gone.
Monza/Vettel? While we're at it, I'd love to see Hamilton in a truly inferior car... ... and I'd love to have seen Jim!
You're basing the 94 Senna title on the assumption that the FIA would have banned MS for the shenanigans going on at Benetton. While that isn't an unrealistic scenario, I still think the real reasons for the ban were a) the FIA trying to keep the championship entertaining and b) give a British driver a chance at the title. Without Senna's death, the championship would have been entertaining enough and Hill would have never entered the picture. Hence IMHO no ban. I doubt it. Not because of Senna (yes he would have been an equal to MS), but because MS did it with the help of Todt and Brawn and whomever they cajoled over from his title winning Benetton team. True, but then again it took MS until 1999 to be in a position where Ferrari could win the title. And don't forget, if Senna went to Ferrari, MS would have likely ended up in the McLaren (he still is best buddy with Haug & Co.) and given Senna in the Ferrari the same challenge Hakkinen gave MS in the McLaren. Yes it is all speculation. That's what makes it so much fun. PS: Alternate history writing is a passion of mine. Lots of good speculation out there on the subject of a failed Operation Overlord.
I think you might be right about the FIA's ulterior motives for the ban but Benetton were still cheating. There would have been some sort of sanction regardless. Todt was already with Ferrari, as close as Todt was to Berger, and Senna was to Berger were it would be hard to believe that Todt would not help Senna. The whole team would be behind them. Also, I'm sure some people would have followed Senna in much the same way they followed MS. He would have fit right in with the team almost immediately. Senna's stature at the time was greater than MS's. When Senna died MS inherited it. Yes it took MS that long, with different people in different places it might have taken Senna a shorter amount of time. It also could have taken Senna longer than MS but I doubt it. Maybe he would have, and that would have been one hell of a battle to watch. Lol yes it is fun. I hate the damned off season. At least there's something to do now..
I'm counting down too. Going to Sebring again but at least Melbourne isn't on the same weekend this year like it was last year, thank God. Last year was rough, lol.
This is my second time, I love it. You have to go, what a party and great racing. My goal this year is to have the inner console lid for my ZO6 signed by Johnny O Connell and Ron Fellows. I bought the car from Franck Freon (that was one hell of a test drive he gave me) who also signed the lid. All I need is Chris Kneifel and I'll have the winning drivers from the 2001 Rolex 24 at Daytona...
Very, very nice. I have a somewhat similar plan for the fuse box cover of my 308. Would love to meet Rene Arnoux one more time (met him twice already, but didn't bring the cover along).
Senna was in talks with Enzo in the 80s for a drive in 1995? Anyways, here's how i look at it. If Senna went to Ferrari, the best he could have finished was 3rd, because Williams was dominant, and MS, like ANdreas said, went to Mclaren, and would have won the 1998,1999,2000 titles at least. Like i said, if compared both, Senna definitely had more passion and raw speed, but in terms of control, MS has the upperhand. Senna could have gone fast in a Ferrari back then, but not fast enough to win the titles. Like Andreas pointed out again, this whole thing, wasn't just MS. It was Todt, MS, Brawn, Bryne, and Paolo Martinelli, and the rest of the Ferrari team. MS acted like a leader, and never raised his voice whenevr things went wrong. He just made sure they recognize their mistakes, and not repeat them. Thats why he's so respected within the team. Senna, OTOH, won't have the patience like MS had, and would have walk out of Ferrari in 1997-1998 latest, IMO.
They actually tried to get him for 92 but Senna wouldn't go because the team was crap back then. He never negotiated with Enzo, obviously I don't know about all that Brian, the Lotus team was garbage when Senna got there. He pulled the team together and started winning races. He only left the team because he and they knew that they simply didn't have the resources to compete for the world championship which is what he so dearly wanted. After Senna left the team they never won another race (I think, pretty sure that's the case). You miss a very important point, Michael patterned himself after Senna, how to conduct himself in out out of the car was learned from him. To think that MS could pull a team together like he did and Senna couldn't, is silly. Senna was just as supreme a motivator as MS was, that's a quality all world champions have. Just read what anyone that ever worked with him had to say about how he worked with the team. [/QUOTE]
Mine to. Fixing that this year. Just in case the enterprise of racing implodes. Come on. It's only 3 hrs.
Uh, I did say that. That was rubbish. No, Senna was in talks with the Ferrari team for a ride in 95. That story I have heard several times now. But not talking to Enzo of course, that's nonsense. Sorry.
That's where I got confused as well. That said, Senna was a very smart man, and Ferrari was a hot mess at that time. I still have doubts he would have ended up there. It's exciting to contemplate, but think about how often rumors start that have drivers with pending/signed contracts for multiple teams.
[/QUOTE] I get your point Luis. But what i was actually saying was a few things, not just management side alone. I think no doubt Senna won in an uncompetitive car is very respectful, but the way the Scuderia was, i really doubt Senna had the patience for them to turn things around. MS was coming up real fast, and he was a threat to Senna, i don't think it was logic for Senna to switch over to the Scuderia in 1995. Williams was the best, and the most fastest team around, and Senna was desperate to join them since 1993. I recall reading in the last 2 months issue of F1 Racing, there was this interview with one of Senna's closest friend back in Brazil, which whom Senna used to go back off season and rent his kart from this guy. This guy, name Mauro, was Senna first ever go-kart mechanic said this : 'Ayrton always tooks risks. At the end of 1993, i was scared something was going to happen to him. I said, Why don't you drive for a ncie slow team like Ferrari? He said, i have to be in the Williams, it's the fastest car...I'm here to win, lose or die...5 months later, he was dead...' Senna was determined to remained at Williams, the way i looked at it. He would have definitely retired by 1997. Because, i think he just wanted to be the best by beating Prost and Fangio for the titles. However, don't forget, when re-fuelling was re introduced, Senna was struggling to compete. No point of him going all the way to 2000,IMHO. At the end of the day, it's really difficult to compare Senna and MS. Pointless in fact, if you asked me. MS would be remembered as the greatest driver of all time, so will Senna too, but was tragically cut short.
You have a point Brian, but Senna himself once said it was every F1 driver's dream to drive for Ferrari. The honor and the pride that comes with being the one to turn things around at the Scuderia would not have been lost one Senna as it was not lost on MS. He might have stayed around long enough to finish the job. If i remember right he only wanted to match Fangio not beat his record. As far as Senna struggling when re-fuelling was introduced in 94, I think your memory of that season may be a bit off. In Brazil MS got ahead of Senna during a pit stop. Senna closed the gap to five seconds and spun off pushing to hard. Not excatly struggling with re-fuelling. He got taken out in the first corner at Aida, not his fault either. Race three was Imola in which he was ahead when the crash happened. It was still early in the season and there is no doubt in my mind that Senna would have turned it around.
Another point to consider in all of this is Ferrari's perspective. Consider their situation at the time, obviously looking to get things back on track. Senna was the man, but Schumacher was clearly taking the fight to him. It was yet to be determined whether Michael would equal Ayrton's talent, but one thing for certain was Schumacher wasn't going to race in Senna's shadow. Obviously talented, he also possessed that rare confidence to challenge the establishment. Now, back to Ferrari. As the premier outfit in F1, you need a driver to match, one who will drive you to the top. The only two choices at that time were Senna the veteran and Schumacher the rising star. Senna seemed to find a family at Williams, and I'm sure Ferrari knew that it would be hard to pry him away and become the center piece of a rebuilding effort. I really don't think Senna was interested in doing that--I believe he felt it was the team's responsibility to build the car, and his to drive it. And Ayrton was well into the second half of his career. Now Michael shared that same personal strength as Senna, but he also had his whole career ahead of him. Plenty of time to invest in rebuilding the Scuderia. While there may have been irresistible overtures of seeing Ayrton drive the Ferrari, the smart choice was always Schumacher. With all the hypotheticals out there, I think it's safe to say that Ferrari would not have risen back to the top any quicker with Senna behind the wheel. It would have been unrealistic for Senna to race the Ferrari on into the 2000s--perhaps he would have clinched a couple of those titles that went to Michael, but I don't know how long he would have stuck around.
You make a few good points too but watch this interview with Prost then tell me how comfortable Senna was with Williams http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKKgrMROP7s Towards the end of the video. Its hard to know what a man is thinking especially as he gets older and matures and accomplishes more. He might have wanted the challenge. There is no way to know how long it would have taken Senna to get the car to where he could win with it. He could very well have done it quicker than MS. Senna had an adaptive style and could drive everything quick. Michael was more technical, and tested constantly. From a technical point of a view it takes a shorter amount of time to adapt to a problem than to locate and fix the problems with the car. I'm not saying Michael could not adapt, but this is where Senna's greater experience would come into play.