WT"FF" | Page 6 | FerrariChat

WT"FF"

Discussion in 'FF/Lusso' started by vaqas0, Mar 23, 2011.

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  1. Bullfighter

    Bullfighter Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jan 26, 2005
    22,350
    Indian Wells, California
    Full Name:
    Jon
    "Finding the empty space" refers to consumer needs, not product specifications. I.e., if you're looking for an upscale vehicle for a family ski trip, do Ferrari's competitors offer solutions?

    Again, I think the answer is that they do. The new, leaned-out Cayenne Turbo is closer in terms of function -- family car, carries stuff, goes fast in snow/wet. I think they run ~$100K.

    The 911 Turbo 4S is more of a sports car -- not a good ski-mobile for a family.

    The FF will probably sell well initially due to its badge, but long term I suspect Ferrari would do better to invest in racing, sports cars and related pursuits where it has a better chance of being the only game in town.
     
  2. werewolf

    werewolf F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 29, 2007
    11,022
    Full Name:
    goodbye
    One quick example : extra weight, and loss of interior space, that the Nissan GT-R AWD system (considered quite "state-of-the-art" upon it's introduction) requires, compared to the FF solution. Of course the real innovation of the FF AWD is recognizing that "full-time" AWD is not required for a system that only seeks occasional traction enhancement :)

    So the question is : can Ferrari enter an "existing" market, rather than an "empty" one, with just enough technical innovation, and practicality, to sell maybe 1000 vehicles a year (in both established and emerging geographic markets) ... rather than dreams of total market segment domination? I'm guessing ... and clearly Ferrari is betting ... that the answer is yes :)
     
  3. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Jon- That is what they said about the California, too. Plus the in crowd never warmed to the 612, either, but Ferrari sold 3125 of them and made money on every one. Their owners love them.

    Who knows? Ferrari has said the 599 replacement will now be the top of the line with the FF one step down. That is a change, since the 456M GTA was more expensive than the F1 575M, and the 612 was more expensive than the 599.

    Ferrari actually does a pretty good job of defining their market segment. FF orders are exceeding expectations. A good sign they actually have a pretty good idea of what they are doing.

    Incidentally, a 250 GT 2+2 cost more than a SWB or Lusso. Any of those ~1000 GTE buyers want to change your mind? Hindsight is wonderful, but does not predict the future. Guess which model made more money for Ferrari?

    One thing we should all understand is Ferrari is not selling future value for its cars. It only cares about what its current customers need or are willing to commit to buy. Investment value is not an entering argument for sales of current Ferrari products by the factory. If they sell to happy customers, all will be well.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  4. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
    2,125
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Bryan
    Great post as always Taz
     
  5. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,835
    #130 Cavallini, Jun 9, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2011
    To hell with nanny! This is worth fightin' for! I'm not creating and pursuing success so some limp-d*k bureaucrat or spineless *hore politician can tell me what I can and cannot do with my money. This nonsense has been growing for 100 years and there's no better time than the present to put these "public servants" in their place, as just that, servants.

    These cars in this category are barely a drop in the bucket of emissions. Deal with diesel trucks long before you think of a Ferrari, Lambo, Zonda, or even Porsche, which has done a magnificent job with emissions reduction.

    If you want to tax me more for buying a $400,000 car, I'm okay with that, as long as the money doesn't keep a bureaucrat in their job. Put that money in infrastructure and schools or unemployment benefits or defense R&D.

    Then I won't have to worry about potholes damaging my $5K rims. And I'll always have beautiful, clean pavement for my Pirelli P Zeros to grip. haha


    Forza,


    Cavallini
     
  6. Cavallini

    Cavallini Formula 3

    Nov 2, 2003
    1,835

    Exactly.
     
  7. furmano

    furmano Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 22, 2004
    31,905
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Furman
    Yes all around. And add, four doors. The Turbo does have four seats. The Bentley. What else does the FF compete with?

    I am convinced more than ever that the FF is an example of, as Christensen and Raynor put it, disruptive innovation.

    WTF indeed.

    -F
     
  8. Kaivball

    Kaivball Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jan 11, 2007
    35,997
    Kalifornia
    China and India are emerging markets for Ferrari that will take on greater importance in the near future.

    Ever driven a road in China or India?

    The FF will be perfect for them.

    Saw and sat in one last weekend. Great car, IMHO. Interior very well done. Seats are very comfortable. Seats for adults easily. I liked it a lot.

    Kai
     
  9. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,186
    Cheshire
    That's a really good point re India and China. I wonder what % of FF production Ferrari expect to go to these markets? Anyone know?
     
  10. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
    2,125
    Austin
    Full Name:
    Bryan
    It seems to me anytime Ferrari comes out with a new style (which they do often to avoid an Aston like sequence) people immediately assume they are looking for markets in the east etc. I'm sure it probably does actually hold creedence for the FF but remember the innovations of the FF were put forth after they asked their existing customers what they wanted in the next 2+2
     
  11. hotsauce

    hotsauce Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2011
    682
    around
    I saw a fair share of new FF's during my factory tour last week, while i can appreciate the engineering in the car, i am not a fan of the styling. It just has a weird curb appeal.
     
  12. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
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    Terry H Phillips
    HS- Luckily for Ferrari, lots of people agree with the curb appeal.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  13. nikkis34

    nikkis34 Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Feb 17, 2004
    259
    SF
    Full Name:
    M. K. Nijjer
    Perhaps in Tazland but not in the real world.
     
  14. Tifosi15

    Tifosi15 Formula 3

    Jul 15, 2009
    2,125
    Austin
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    Bryan
    No the real world, remember the entire first year of production is sold
     
  15. TestShoot

    TestShoot F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 1, 2003
    12,025
    Beverly Hills
    The first year of teh PT cruiser, the Prowler, the Aztec, and other auto-abortions also sold out he first year production. Some cars flip the switch for some people, just because it sold out does not mean there are not 600 people with horrid taste.
     
  16. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
    Moderator Owner

    Mar 20, 2004
    7,573
    Full Name:
    Mike
    That may not mean very much, pretty easy to sell out the first years production if you are only planning to build a few cars - sounds good from a marketing perspective though....
    In any case one demonstrator per dealer would soak up perhaps 150 cars globablly straight away.

    M
     
  17. Nuxi

    Nuxi Karting

    Feb 26, 2011
    76
    Melbourne
    Full Name:
    Michael
    I don't mind the FF. It certainly is different, which is good. However, the only thing that bothers me with the new model Ferrari's is that they now use the same tail lights (599, 458 and now with the FF), and headlights between the FF and 458. I just wish they could be a bit more creative. Happy to get other members opinions on this.
     
  18. S Brake

    S Brake F1 World Champ

    Aug 3, 2006
    17,182
    Utah
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    Dave
    It's a lot easier to sell out of a car that costs $25k. This is entirely different. Ferrari will sell every FF it makes without severe discounts.
     
  19. subirg

    subirg F1 Rookie

    Dec 19, 2003
    4,186
    Cheshire
    Well, we all know that is only true up to a point... As per the 612 - the initial years of production will sell out, and then, as the demand curve tails off, they will only be made 'on demand' (and without discount) and with increasingly tenuous special editions emerging from time to time in order to shift units.

    Personally, as I have said before, the FF is not my cup of tea, but I am sure Ferrari have built this car because there is a market for it. Times change, and so do potential Ferrari owners ideas of what they want - and which parts of the world will buy them. Let Ferrari make what ever they can sell. As long as the result is an ever evolving and improving set of Ferrari cars we all win in the end!
     
  20. Cariad

    Cariad Formula Junior

    Jan 1, 2006
    445
    Any F1 Circuit
    Horrid taste like a 458 Italia, 66 Alfa Duetto, Dino GTC, Austin Healey 3000 etc.
     
  21. TheMayor

    TheMayor Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    98,533
    Vegas baby
    Is this thread still going? Geez some whiners have become bored bothering happy California owners.

    Why don't you haters go over to Mac life and crap all over their ugly machine? You can make us both happy.
     
  22. ChalStrad

    ChalStrad Formula 3

    Jan 22, 2004
    2,249
    Lausanne Switzerland
    Full Name:
    Peter Mann
    +1, booring
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    37,984
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Nikkis- I see a short ban did not teach you anything. Trying for a longer one? With you having no skin in the game, the mods have no motivation for mercy.

    Taz
    Terry Phillips
     
  24. ferrariFF

    ferrariFF Rookie

    Jun 20, 2011
    1
    bought me the ff brochure at ebay. and i have to tell that i´m in love with this car. the pictures ere are nice but the brochure shows on over 80pages how nice the car is!!!
    need money :(
     
  25. Julio Batista

    Julio Batista Formula 3

    Dec 22, 2005
    2,397
    #150 Julio Batista, Jun 21, 2011
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2011
    The FF is a solid and attractive Ferrari fully in the established tradition of great Ferrari 2+2's. Some like it, some don't. After sitting in an FF, I personally like it very much. I have owned a Ferrari 2+2 in the past and remember it very fondly.

    The California is a badge-engineered Maserati targeted at a completely new customer segment. Some like it, some don't. I personally dislike it: for its aesthetics, its equipment, and the mindset of its owners, as evidenced by their insecurity, defensiveness, and the thread subjects posted in their forum.

    Your attempt to depict any criticism of either model as simple hate directed at one new model after the other is censorious and naive. There is nothing in common between the FF and the California a part from their novelty. One is a Ferrari, the other isn't.

    Your censorship, dismissal and disrespect of all those who do not sing the praises of your favorite models is tiresome in the extreme. Have you ever heard of the ignore button?

    The "haters", as you call them, will post wherever they wish. That's what a forum is for.

    The FF is an inevitably controversial machine which will slowly be accepted.

    The California is a tragic mistake.

    Learn to live with criticism, even if you don't like it or agree with it.

    Grow a skin, or learn how to use the ignore button, or just shut up.
     

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