Wow I'm Totally Shocked My 458 vs Huracan | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Wow I'm Totally Shocked My 458 vs Huracan

Discussion in '458 Italia/488/F8' started by Ferrari Now & Forever, Dec 1, 2016.

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  1. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    #76 Lukeylikey, Dec 5, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2016
    I'm kind of surprised at this conversation. It started as defending the Huracan from being labelled a "piece of junk" - something which I have sympathy with. I have never driven a Huracan, and suspect it is absolutely not the car for me, but in general I don't like these over-statements. People who can afford none of these cars are highly unlikely to reach the same conclusion. Therefore "junk" in its precise meaning, is not really a carefully slelcted term. I hear this sort of talk on other forums, especially McLife, in relation to Ferrari. The point is, even though most of us don't get offended by it, it is offensive to some degree, particularly if you are contributing to Fchat and happen to own a Huracan (which I don't).

    It will never change is my guess. But it would be more interesting if people chose to use this language, that has taken hundreds of years to develop and refine, to describe what they mean rather than use a single 'nuclear' word and leave us to our own interpretation.

    For example, exactly what part of the driving experience is like "junk"? Does it smell bad? Does the sound of it rattle, like when rubbish is emptied into the truck? Junk is useless, so will it not get you to your destination? Will it not make that turn?

    I feel a bit of an idiot for making a fairly fatuous point and I mean no offence to the OP, just that it is better for us to be more descriptive when we are trying to convey an opinion that is quite strong.

    As for not being able to tell cars apart at low speed, sorry, I'm not with you there Noone1 - not that that should worry you, of course! True, at low speed you won't know which will ultimately be faster, grippier or quicker around a circuit. But you can tell the difference in their personalities. Just like you will not know a person in detail when you first meet them, but first impressions almost always allow a very good estimation of the kind of person they are. There will then be other layers to discover over time, but those layers will be a sub-set of that initial personality you saw.

    Keeping within brand so as not to make this a brand-knocking thing, a trip in a city in a Speciale is very different to my FF. Without even pressing the throttle half-way you just know which will be the livelier, more spirited car, and which one more relaxed. The way the car moves on its suspension, the feeling through the steering, the way the brakes work, the way it builds speed - even low speeds; so many different parts of the feedback sensors in my body (butt, legs, feet, hands, eyes, ears, shoulders, chest, brain...) receive changed information between those two cars. I sort of know what you mean - the ultimate performance envelope cannot be discovered at low speed - but don't really think it's therefore right to conclude that you can't get an accurate 'first impression' even at lower speeds. Mainly because, for me, the definition of a great or a "junk" car has never been about the figures. It is all about the personality, the feel, and its ability to make you feel, "yeah!" I love driving this car. I know I can feel that at low speed, not as much as at high speed, but it's still there.
     
  2. mik458spider

    mik458spider Formula 3

    Jan 13, 2013
    1,386
    I'd still take 2wd Huracan over 488.
     
  3. traimpz348

    traimpz348 Formula 3

    Apr 13, 2004
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    Matthew
    +1
     
  4. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    I can only tell you I know the difference, as an owner.

    And car lover.

    You perhaps should get Camry's.

    No malice meant, I'm serious if you feel this way don't sniff around exotics.
     
  5. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    I think you want to believe the cars are doing something significantly different when in fact they're not, and that you think they are because you're experiencing different seating positions, different view out the windscreen, different ride height, tires, etc. You drive a certain way such that the cars feel dynamically different, but you never try to adjust your driving to each car in order to accomplish the same thing. You also probably don't drive them all equal amounts and in equal intervals. You spending time in a 918 does not qualify and regularly using a 918.

    Jump in a 12C w/ CCB, a 488, and a Huracan. What's going to happen is you're going to bite the steering wheel in the 12C because they're grabby. Even I know they're grabby. You're going to tell me you can tell the difference in brake feel day one. After a few days though, you're going to say there is no difference in brake feel in normal driving because your body has naturally adapted to the brakes. Same thing happens with clutches. You get a new car and the clutch feels totally different. You're revving too much, not enough, taking your foot off too soon when you pull away and lurch. A few days later, you're smooth as can be and you don't even think about it. You subconscious and muscle memory simply know how to modulate it such that the car does what you want it to. Whether it's a 90s Lotus Esprit, a 2010 Honda Civic, or 2004 Carrera GT, you pull away from the stop sign exactly the same because your body naturally has adjusted to the mechanical differences, and the desired dynamic -- a steady and smooth acceleration -- is well within the capabilities of all three cars.

    Your body can compensate for the differences between the cars in normal driving. Whether you're willing to do it and want to do it is another story. If you're going to actually measure the degrees of rotation to turn into a driveway and pay attention to how much you turn your arms, sure, you're going to find they're different. If you're just going to turn into the damn driveway like a normal person without it being a noteworthy event in your daily life, you won't.

    I'd also point out other glaring issues:

    1. Roads and road conditions on any given day. No two roads are the same, hell, no two lanes on the same road are even the same.

    2. Wear and tear item, fluids and tires. I know my car feels tighter after service. I can tell the difference between 10k mile Pzeros and wider R888s.

    3. You want to notice the difference because you're trying to justify the difference. Look no further than the OP. Screen name checks out -- Ferrari Now and Forever. Says a better car than his in every objective way drives like junk and like a truck. Says it feels like a truck on a dirt road, says it shifts rough. Something tells me if he goes and drives a Macan he won't say how much smoother and nicer it shifts than his 458. Why? The same reason people here get their panties up in a bunch when you say you don't like their car. A lot of people need to justify these thing.

    IMO, actively trying to tell insignificant and pointless differences between cars doesn't make you an enthusiast, it makes you something else entirely... an easy target for $20K CF "weight reduction" options maybe?
     
  6. GPM

    GPM Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2015
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    hey, there's nothing wrong with the new camry design!
     
  7. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    My point is that when trying to accomplish the same reasonable and typical things in 2 similar segmented cars -- modern, exotic, 2 seats, low, wide windscreen, exciting, loud -- they won't do anything significantly different in normal driving. You can and will adjust your driving and settings of the car to create the same experience in either for the majority of usage. What you will notice are things like seating position, ride height, the way the interior makes you feel, the windscreen, the noise. This has nothing to do with the dynamics of the car though on normal roads with daily driving.

    If you attempt to drive two cars using exactly the same inputs, they will feel different. Why you would do that though, I have no idea. The clutch and brake examples are perfect. We stop and pull away from every stop sign exactly the same, even though every clutch and brake pedal has seemingly different throw, resistance, and overall feel. When we first get in different cars though, we brake and clutch poorly because we are naturally using that old input.

    OP has been driving a 458 for several years and had a Huracan for a weekend. He never even had the opportunity to adjust to the car.

    There is a reason McLaren will bring a 675LT, 570S, and 570GT to a press day with completely different options even though they could probably spec them all the same in many ways. GT comes with steel, 570S/675LT come with CCB. 675LT on Trofeos, 570S on Corsas, GT on Pzeros. Manual race seats in the 675LT, electric comforts in the GT. You're gonna hop from car to car and notice difference between you haven't had any real time to get used to the cars. They don't want you to say, "Honestly, driving on the road at 50mph feels very similar in all these cars." You're going to feel the difference in the brakes in the first hour, but when you actually buy one, you'll realize you stop on a dime regardless and without thinking about it.
     
  8. dustman

    dustman F1 Veteran
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    Jun 12, 2007
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    LOL!

    Enough of this nonsense already.

    Lets enjoy our cars.
     
  9. clar

    clar Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2013
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    Nobody is trying to accomplish any thing when driving Ferraris. People are trying to have fun! Why do u keep focusing on doing different things??? Is one car supposed to get u there while another is supposed to fly u there to be different?
     
  10. SECRET

    SECRET Formula Junior
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    May 19, 2007
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    Don't bother. He's just bait to keep everyone going. He wins the internet.
     
  11. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    INDEED !
     
  12. REALZEUS

    REALZEUS F1 Veteran

    Feb 16, 2011
    7,658
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    You will adjust, but you will still notice the difference! You will still say that car X requires less steering movement for this particular corner, while car Y has grabbier brakes and car Z has a smoother acting clutch or gearbox. If you cannot notice the difference, then you are not a very good driver as you don't have the feel of the car.
     
  13. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    You will only notice the difference for a few days. After that it just becomes the same, regardless of what car you have. The test is simple, in fact:

    Change your seating position and drive barefoot or with sandals. Suddenly the brake pedal on the same car will feel totally different. Why? Because you've adjusted the mechanics of the action and it feels different. You foot and leg is now interacting with the car differently. After a little while though, braking will return to being more or less a subconscious action of muscle memory.

    Want to change the steering feel of a car? Buy an aftermarket wheel and/or adjust your grip and seating position. Hell, drive relaxed, with one hand on the wheel, it's not like you're making u-turns. The underlying car isn't changing, but the mechanics of interaction are. After a little while, you've adapted and it becomes muscle memory.

    These difference are actually extremely minute between cars of such a high and similar caliber. These are very modern, very high performance cars. It's not like you have to push the brake pedal on a 458 massively more/less than a Huracan to achieve the desired deceleration. You know your comfortable rate of deceleration for coming to a stop sign. You don't even have to think about it to do it.

    Of course, all of these tiny differences get reduced even further when you consider the reality of real world roads and typical usage. You have to stay in your lane and on your side of the road, and you are almost always driving way, way under the potential of the car with perfectly fine traction. Something like the steering input differences for a particularly corner become incredibly minute and insignificant at anything other than the extreme. Why is this? Well, that's because your car has to follow a more or less predefined path, no matter if it's a 458 or a Huracan, and you will naturally not go anywhere near the maximum speeds capable given just how much trouble you'd get into if you get pulled over.

    You can't apex on the majority of roads. You're not going to go wide then dive in. Most nice roads aren't even very wide to begin with. You can't just cut across lanes, let alone enter the oncoming lane. I mean, you could, but I highly doubt anyone here does or would advocate such driving. It's incredibly dangerous and incredibly illegal. You don't get to choose how you go around the majority of corners. You have a few feet either side of your car and that's it.

    And that's on the fabled backroads. What about the real world where we actually see and use exotics most, like driving to cars and coffee, or getting lunch, or going shopping, or going to the movies? Pull up maps of where most exotic dealerships are. Look at the infrastructure where most people with exotics live. I'd say there's not more than a handful of nice roads within 100 sq miles (and that's being very conservative) of the exotic dealers where I live, and it also happens to be where the majority of exotics reside and where you see the majority of them being used. It's not entirely different in most of the major markets. Any nice road you find will be extremely short, not taxing on any aspect of the car at any sane speed, and you'll spend more time and miles getting to that road than you will driving on it. Oh, it it will probably not be in the direction of any place you're actually going.

    When you actually look at everyday usage of an exotic, you'll find there is no substantial difference between dynamics once you actually take more than a few days to get used to it.

    If you only drive your exotic on long, meaningless drives in the countryside once a month, sure, take all those minute difference in vehicle dynamics into great consideration and feel them out every drive. If you have 5000 miles on your car, you live in the city or suburbs, and you find yourself getting lunch, going shopping, going to work, or running errands, I'd suggest you ignore everything objective about the car.

    OP is an excellent example of someone who would prefer to believe in the subjective and the emotion rather than accept the reality of modern exotics on public roads. He literally called a car that is objectively superior to the 458 in almost every way a truck that might be broken. It's faster, it has better traction, the braking distances are more or less the same, the slalom is the same or better, the transmission is perfectly fine and extremely smooth and fast. It's fast revving NA V10 with more torque and power.

    My question for the OP: Where can I get a truck like that?
     
  14. GPM

    GPM Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2015
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    now, that's what I call over analyzing,,
     
  15. Bell Bloke

    Bell Bloke Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2012
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    UK
    Interesting discussion.
    I've owned and driven some all time greats, from owning a Miura, Jarama, Diablo and Countach Qv to name a few to driving an F40 288 GTO 1958 Testarossa McLaren F1 and so on, all very different and all bloody old now....Oh dear.
    But here's something I'll always remember, first impressions can be very wrong, here is a chalk and cheese example.
    Many years ago I swapped my Countach Qv for a Lotus GT V8, the Lotus was new and the figures were impressive, also the Countach was well 'tricky'.
    On picking up the Lotus I was really disappointed with it. It was quiet, easy to drive, comfortable and well a bit boring. The Lamborghini had the most musical of engines so I was feeling a considerable loss.
    However, that night I took it up on the track in the pouring rain and gave it some stick....unbelievable! What a car!
    On the streets it lacked the charisma of the Lamborghini, but on the track it was insanely wonderful.
    So I guess sometimes one needs to live with it to truly appreciate and understand it.
    Regards Bell
     
  16. RBK

    RBK F1 Rookie

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    Without meaning either disrespect nor an insult

    Suggesting someone does not " have enough experience to know what (they are) talking about", suggests a great deal more about you than whomever you may be addressing.

    I have allot of experience, and agree with the op. However, you may see things differently, but please be able to accept that other may not see things as you do.

    I can only hope that whatever you choose, you enjoy. I find too many, whether it be a romantic relationship or car, enjoy the hunt more than the catch. Best

     
  17. noone1

    noone1 F1 Rookie
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    You do realize the OP said one of the best exotics on the planet drives like a broken truck on a dirt road/piece of junk, right?

    Anyone who said that about the Huracan doesn't know what they're talking about. It's not even debatable.
     
  18. fredhassen

    fredhassen Formula Junior

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    #93 fredhassen, Dec 7, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016

    I think failed spell check was at work and what he really said was:

    "I wish that my broken truck piece of junk that is abandoned on some old dirt road gets fixed and will drive like a Lamborghini"

    Just kidding! You guys get crazy around here! I doubt he meant it literally but that's just me.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Ash Patel likes this.
  19. GPM

    GPM Formula Junior

    Mar 26, 2015
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    I drove the Huracan, and without debating which super model looks better, I found it exhilarating as I do most exotics, put the argument too bed gentlemen, each to there own, let it go, however I do agree somewhat with OP that in traffic or as a DD it really does come down to comfort and personal looks,,
     
  20. RBK

    RBK F1 Rookie

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    Your 15 posts, suggest otherwise (ha ha). Best



     
  21. Lukeylikey

    Lukeylikey F1 Rookie
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    Not wanting to prolong the argument (but finding myself doing it anyway) your experience of supercar 'user-ship' in no way reflects mine. I live in a semi-rural place, near to large roads and cities, but not too far away from nice back roads. It is absolutely clear to me that the differences between cars that I have owned are very obvious, at all kinds of speeds. I don't use most of my cars to do the mundane stuff, although I indulge myself where the FF is concerned because it's just a nice car to be in. Even then, I can tell that it is doing things differently to the way, say, my Subaru Outback would handle a journey to the supermarket.

    I can't really see your point. I know that in the basic sense, braking a Ferrari or an Audi, or a Lamborghini or Porsche or McLaren, from 30 to 0 is a fairly similar process. But when you combine braking, suspension, power delivery, steering all together, even at low speeds, there are subtle but important differences to the way each car behaves. 10 people lined up against an elephant and yes the people are basically the same and clearly different to the elephant. But they are not really the same, are they? And even a 2 minute, casual conversation about nothing in particular will reveal key and significant differences between them.
     
  22. Braces

    Braces Karting

    Mar 24, 2012
    120
    Scottsdale, Arizona
    Interestingly over on the Lamborghini forums ... The opinions are the exact opposite.

    Different strokes for different folks. One man's trash is another man's treasure.

    I think ALL cars have different experiences and are uniquely appealing to different people.

    My car goal in life is to experience MANY different car brands rather than stay loyal to one brand.
     
  23. saraojo

    saraojo Formula 3

    Mar 9, 2015
    1,275
    Northeast
    Yes horses for courses. I also love the v12 Lamborghinis. Different experience from the Ferraris.
     
  24. colonels

    colonels Formula Junior

    Aug 5, 2011
    807
    my neighbor is a pro-basketball player just got a huge contract... celebrates with a bright yellow Aventador Spyder! to be fair he is German so he might have that Audi bias...
     
  25. Principissimo

    Principissimo Formula Junior

    Sep 14, 2015
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    Bruno
    Actually i soldi 6 months ago my 458 for a 610 Huracan.
    After a while i have installed the racer exhaust and now it sounds great.
    458 has one of the best sounds in the world ;)
    However the H is faster and easier to drive and it is newer.
    I do not agree on the comments of the opener 👍
     

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