'A little slow BW...see post 20: ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You're not going far enuff back. We're talking the original GA ugly ducks here.
My mistake. I pay little attention to his persistent NASCAR bashing so I missed that. However, your Corvette is just a shadow of the Lola version of the 80s. I posted a comparison on some other thread. Not the same shot, but the appropriate angle for comparison to yours: (edit: and yours looks more like an old Saleen S7R; bottom) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
But of course...goes without (need for) saying. We all understand your prejudice. Me? I always disliked the DPs, but I have to admit, the Saleens....errr...Corvettes weren't ugly....kinda good looking. Not good....just good looking. Again, I'd rather watch even the street car based S7R, rather than that DP 'Vette, any day. (We won't even think about mentioning the bestest era GTP Lola "Vette", et al, in the same breath....)
Ok, whatever. The ones you posted a picture of is what I meant. (BTW, pass the eye bleach, please.) I haven't cared enough to pay close attention in a loooooonnnnnggggg time. Like since the demise of GTP.
You're mistaken. That's not ugly...'just ahead of it's time. 'Should have no wheels, and 'see Astro; George, Jane, Elroy, and Judy (Jetson) negotiating some asteroids in the thing.... Image Unavailable, Please Login
Great thread! so far its between the nascar car of tomorrow and the porsche powered dp for me. Both are absolutely hideous. The shadow is maybe most insane. Like a supermarket shopping cart with a huge v8 and wing in the back. Who would be crazy and fearless enough to even drive it pet alone drive it? Totally beserk!
"Who would be crazy and fearless enough to even drive it pet alone drive it?" IIRC, Geo. Follmer (of Trans Am and Turbopanzers 917 fame) edit: Speaking of Turbopanzer...you too are mistaken. Mini striped zebras are beautiful... edit edit: Tp...I know, I know....917/10...917/30..... They all look alike to me...
If Smile's 2J is ugly (at least VERY fast, albeit banned shortly after it's intro) then what was the 2H??? (and why are we picking on Jim Hall?). Not only hideous but a total flop as verified by John Surtees abandoning the team.... Image Unavailable, Please Login
There were a lot of good ideas on this 2H, but they were never validated. Surtees insisted in modifying the driving position, fighting the concept, and that compromised the whole design. The enormous wing was an afterthought and not on the initial plan. Jim Hall was very bitter about Surtees acting like a prima dona and telling him how to design cars !
Yes, the original Shadow CanAm car was something else... But look how exposed and vulnerable the driver is!!
As originally conceived it was quite stunning as I recall. All the added aero tends to confirm the flaws of the original design. Hall was a hell of an innovator. When he got it right his cars were among the most competitive.
The original 2H wasn't bad but it got worse with all the appendages, especially that enormous top wing. As for the 2J, it was ugly but it got the job done (as long as the little fan motors were working). Sort of like the Air Force A-10 tank-buster. The second-generation DPs (like the Corvette) weren't bad, but the first-generation cars were hideous!
A girl friend of mine had a Pacer when we were dating in High School. They are plain ugly and trying to make one a "race" car is something I thought I would never see.............
The original and my fav of all his cars (my leaning toward endurance racing had nothing to do with that, eh?) the 2F, winner of BOAC 500, 1967. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I'm assuming so. I grabbed the pic as it was all I could find offhand without the extries attached. 'Went back to the site and it was taken at Bridgehampton and I was there...Hall was runnin' the McLaren at the time.
Cunningham's "Le Monstre" from the 1950 Le Mans race was mentioned but not pictured... There's a 1950 Cadillac under there somewhere... At a recent vintage event at Laguna here... Image Unavailable, Please Login
I guess this is how they originally ran as it's from the museum: Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The "photoshopped" Chaparral 2H is close to the original design, with the driver laying deep inside the bodywork. To improve the peripheral vision, Jim Hall had intended to have a small periscope too, in addition to the front windscreen and the lateral windows. But John Surtees who was recruited to drive it ,insisted on an open cockpit; that brought the faired "headrest" and compromised the aero. The 2H was also pioneering a clever suspension with long wishbones to reduce the roll. A completely different kinematic to conventional suspensions, and brought on by the narrow bodywork Hall has decided to reduce the frontal area. It's a pity that Surtees and Hall didn't get on. The car was never developed and some of its solutions never truly tested. Surtees couldn't think "outside the box", and by then Jim Hall couldn't drive anymore after the horrible accident he had.
