"Worst Ferrari ever made"

I believe that the 308 GT4's (1976 cars or so) price evolution is a good benchmark for which to judge Mondial values in the future. Also a 4 seater, also severy underlooked, and now rising in value by the week. Give it another 10 years and we'll see. I know I'll have my Mondial by my side in 10 years' time (if I'm still alive!)

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Found the photos:

Epic Journeys: Motor Trend's Greatest Road Trips - Motor Trend All Pages
.

 

I agree with all what Jay said about the car. Now that I don't have mine anymore I realize how fun it was reading Jay's comment. It was a no fuss fun car. The top was down all the time ready to go and enjoy. I really hope to own another one someday.

 

Claude,
What do you think of the TR's that have been made into convertibles?
Seems like the best of 2 worlds... V12 fun + sunshine!
Cheers,
Greg

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Hi Greg, your photo is actually a 348 spider lovely car mate!
I think you meant to post a Testarossa Cabriolet like this one.

Cheers,
Mike
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I've contemplate the possibility of buying one of them for a while. But I think I'm a little purist for a modified car and it was a single mirror which I don't like. The best is one of each.

 

Mike.
Of course it's a 348 - can't believe I missed that, must be my multitasking .
Agree, the TR Straman is a great looking car and probably a ball to drive and listen to!
Cheers,
Greg

 

Well, either we don’t have the same journalists, or the same roads, or it was not the same car?

Some extracts from “Sport Auto” # 287, December 1985, for the presentation of the new 3,2 litres Ferraris.
Sorry for not putting the whole article, but this would not be allowed by the copyrights laws, and besides, I would need more translation time.
The writer is José Rosinski, a well respected test driver of sports cars, who raced at Le Mans during the sixties. He was partial only to Jaguars…

“…then the V8 encountered a serious snag with the painful adoption of the K-Jetronic Bosch in 1980, which was mandatory for keeping its American visa. The poor 308 was hit hard, with a power-to-weight ratio that rose to 6.3 kg per hp. But even much more cruel was that it happened just in time for the market launch of the “Mondial”, a car much heavier than a 308, which was condemned with a ratio of 7 kgs per hp, a figure absolutely inacceptable for a Ferrari. This power-to-weight ratio explains much of the mitigated reputation this model has for the Ferrari purists; I have been told that one, seeing a “Mondial 8” passing by, said with much despise “that one, Ferrari will have to pay us back for it!”

“…with the Quattrovalvole version, the V8 engine gained its title of nobility back, but as for the Mondial, 240hp were still not enough to allow any showing up: lightness is certainly not a virtue of this car, with a very heavy tubular structure and body panels that explain its weight of a tonne and a half, and if the “QV” engine put the 308 back to where it belonged, the “Mondial” was still not up to its competition, as it is only natural that more is to be expected from a car wearing the Ferrari badge”.

“…I admit having been very critical of the “Mondial” in its first two versions, especially the first one; but now with the 3,2 litre engine, a higher step has been reached, especially for the performances which can now be considered as satisfactory at last. Compared to its QV version, the “Mondial 3,2” has gained 6 km/h in top speed, half a second on the standing 400m and 9/10th on the standing km. Performances of the 3,2 Mondial are level with the former 308 QV. Accelerations are equivalent to a Porsche 928, “pick-up” are better (…) aerodynamics are mediocre, which explains why top speed is 15km/h less than the German GT (…) the steering is still much too demultiplied and not sharp enough for any kind of sports driving (…) the road behavior of the car is still the same: exceptional stability up the maximum speed and excellent suspension comfort (the very long wheel base probably explains these characteristics) the car understeers moderatly, but its handling remains problematic. Steering is indeed slightly less heavy with the new front tyres dimension, but the weight of the car is still felt, the feeling of general heaviness is still present and inertia is important. Said in other words, the Mondial is made for long highway travels, certainly not for being driven on small roads. It seems justified to wonder whether adopting a sports car architecture (a central engine) for a four seater does not bring more inconveniences than advantages”

“…after driving the “Mondial”, driving the 328 gives you the feeling of driving a go-kart: not only is the car 250 lbs lighter (figures are as verified on the scale by the magazine, the factory figures for weights were not considered reliable at the time), but the steering is lighter, direct and precise; the car is much more agile and sharp, and performances are of a completely different level”

Sport-Auto #317, June 1988, test of the Mondial and 328 by Raymond Bochet, for the arrival of the ABS option:
“…often despised at its launch, due to a power to weight ratio that was not worth the Ferrari name, the Mondial was rehabilitated at the end of 1985 with the 3,2 engine. Despite its heavy weight of 1500 kgs, the 270 hp of its brilliant engine allowed at last the “Mondial” to reach the level of performances of a true Ferrari: 247 km/h and 27 sec on the standing kilometer; whereas the first version has just enough breath to reach a bare 220 km/h and 29 sec on the standing kilometer (…) we are still waiting for power steering, the heaviness of the steering and its laziness remaining unacceptable”

 

I always see, every year, the 1000miglia race, here close my home: there are tons of fantastic 1927-1957 supercars and race cars, with many Ferrari among them. If you look at them with todays eyes, you will wonder how those slow, poor finished, often not good looking cars can be Ferrari and worth millions each.

The answer is "because they are old Ferrari, the world No.1 supercar maker". Maybe not all Ferrari models are perfect (none is), some are better than others, but none are scraps and there isn't "the worst". The one i like less is the 125S, that not means "it's the worst Ferrari ever".

ciao

 

You're right of course; my point is just to keep track of what was actually said of the cars when they were new models on the market back then.
Besides, we may have a langage point here, but I'm not sure; the usual accepted french translation of "the worst" is "le/la pire". Now I think I know what would mean in french "la pire Ferrari jamais construite", but I am not sure if the english expression "the worst Ferrari ever build" would mean exactly the same...

Rgds

 

Thanks Nerofer for those extracts, very interesting! I think they illustrate a peculiar point: many test drivers at the time compared the Mondial to the 2 seaters which is a totally wrong comparison. The only acceptable comparison is the GT4 Dino, whether in 208 or 308 version. But nobody seems to be commenting much about this...to my mind this borders on ignorance...comparing the Mondial with the 3x8 is actually a bit like comparing the 911 to the 928....that still begs the question whether the Mondial is actually a GT....

 

Good points and I've always maintained that the Mondial is a GT and comparing it to true sports cars, especially in regards to performance, just isn't right.

 

But at least for the article I have quoted, this is not what they do: for instance, they wrote that despite the QV engine, the Mondial was "not up to its competition", by which they mean: "other european GTs car, or Sports-Cars with four seats".
Note also that their main point of comparison for the 3,2 is the Porsche 928.

It is indeed true that they considered for the two first versions of the car ("8" and "QV") that the powered-to-weight ratio of the Mondial was not deserving the "Ferrari" name, this irrespective of the number of seats; said otherwise, it was not able of the level of performance that one has the right to expect from a car wearing this name.

Rgds

 

True, and it makes one wonder what they were thinking at the time. Surely Ferrari's test drivers had a whorl with it during development.

Suppose; the Mondial (meaning "World") was designed and built for the "world market". Important emissions and safety regulations were being dictated, at varying levels, globally. Other manufacturers have tried many times over the years to create an essentially one-size-fits-all product. When this happens, performance suffers (but not nowadays )

Hmm... it's worth looking into the Mondial 8 to see if that were the case as well.

 

I must admit that, out of my memory, I don't recall having read much about the inception and birth of the "Mondial"...I can only recall an interview of Leonardo Fioravanti in which he mentionned that packaging four persons in front of a middle engine in a car was devilishly difficult, and that's all.
For the 308 for instance, there are lots of stories about its conception, about the tests made by Niki Lauda and Clay Reggazzoni, interviews of Niki himself about what was his output, etc...
Very few things about the "Mondial", if any?
That said, I would say that the name was just for traditions purpose, a new utilisation of the name of a Ferrari from the Fifties: I am not sure Ferrari was thinking "Mondial" in the sense of "Global"...

Rgds

 

All of my prior short quote entries listed the source and date of print. I have whole articles but was trying to show it was mostly positive at the time but not all positive. All opinions in the end, but hopefully respected opinions of people who had access to many great cars at the time.

One quote I pulled from a magazine article that I enjoy is this one.

"A complex personality mix of sports car and GT with wonderful engine sounds and top down cruising for 4."

These cars aren't one thing, they are many things. And different to different people. The above quote is from someone who has no right to write about cars and has nothing valid to compare against, me.

 

Hi Bill1963 - Love your post! I hope you don't take the following response the wrong way.

I too had posted some threads with a 'negative' slant in the subject line as well - I realized that it paints the car in a bad light and that makes all our "auto equity" a little lower however small.

I echo sentiments here (remember I am guilty of the same thing) you can PM a moderator (if you like) and perhaps change the title to "funny thing said today at at the garage" or something like that?

I wish you and your family the very best this Thanksgiving Season!

Happy Motoring

 

I've have a cache of vintage 80's magazines I have to scan and post - all of them were overwhelmingly positive about the Mondial (yes, including the 8)

This makes me wonder....it's often been a parroted line "The Mondial was derided by the automotive press at the time, (especially the 8)"

Reading through multiple age stained pages, I have yet to find the smoking gun....

I'm starting to think that a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth?

I'm traveling quite a bit the next two weeks but I promise to scan and post the goodies when I get a breather!

I wish you all a fantastic, safe, and blessed Holiday Week.

Cheers my friends.

 

Although not directly linked to the topic being discussed here, but once we've been talking about numbers, there's one thing I don't understand:

According to Wikipedia, the Coupe weighed 1,410kg (3,109 lbs) but the Convertible weighed less (1,400kg or 3,086). How is that possible, once the Convertibles need to be reinforced?

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

For the Euro 3.2 those are the same numbers from Keith Bluemel's Original Ferrari V8, long considered to be the Bible for these cars.

BTW, the weights for the US 3.2 cars are:

Coupe - 1540kg (3395lb)
Cab - 1530kg (3373lb)

I would have expected that the Cab was heavier as well.

 

Considering the cab has a fabric roof and liner and a few frame tubing with a plastic rear view window, it makes sense why it would be lighter than the coupe.
But without a metal roof or roll over protection, I'm not sure if my cabrio will adequately protect me or my occupants during a roll over.

Best

 

Actually, in many cases the structure needs additional strengthening once the top is "chopped off'. This helps reduce the dreaded "cowl shake" inherent to most convertibles and the chassis flex associated with targa models.

As Nuno mentioned (regarding lighter weight), "How is that possible, once the Convertibles need to be reinforced?

I've never analyzed the differences in structure between the Coupe and Cab, but lighter wins!

Regarding rollover, I hate to say it but I saw a late 90s Camaro convertible that rolled over in the street. The car was upside down with its windshield folded flat underneath.

Just drive safe and enjoy!

 

Anyone put the cabs on a lift? Plenty of body flexing, to the point where it can be challenging opening and closing the doors.

 

Almost all convertible are like this. When driving the car put your hand on the door gap between the door and rear quarter. You'll be amazed how much it moves.