Woman dies at Andretti driving experience at Fontana.

Whether or not that's a benefit depends on what type of tires they are using. Race tires are quite a bit more dangerous if you are not working the tires.

 

Death lurks everywhere...

http://www.dailybulletin.com/ci_16365107?source=rss_viewed

 

That Chino Hills course is a killer. I played there once and they really don't prepare you very well. I only had a caddie for the front nine and then I was on my own! My approach to 13 was wide and I ended up in the sand! I definately won't be back until they make it safer.

 

It's Bush's fault, didn't you know?

 

It might be the wrong time to ask, but does anybody know if there is any difference in MARE's Practice and Qualifier sessions besides 5 vs 8 minutes?

 

I did an SCCA certification school, we drove FF2000 / Formula Continental cars. According to my on board computer, we often hit 120-125. I concur with Andreas - going that fast in an open wheel car near a wall is thrilling - almost scary.

In fact, one of the days, I spun my car at probably 80-90 mph - that was an eye opening experience.

People have been killed in Formula Ford cars FWIW.

 

Thanks m8.

I did 3 day Skip Barber in the open wheel Skippy cars. It was great and taught me a lot but I always wanted to know what the big leagues feel. Andretti experience and places like that fulfill that dream just perfectly.

 

Yes, I am envious of you - that Champ Car looks sweet! What did they have in it - the turbo Cossie or was it a later IRL-type engine? Thinking the latter, as I don't see the pop-off valve, but can't tell for sure.

 

Don't envy me for these experiences. You can do these in the US for around 500 bucks a pop. If you want to "envy" me, that'd be for the two F1 cars I drove.

No, that's just a regular V8 Chevy (IIRC) tuned to perform. No turbo. The cars themselves are light enough to give you the thrill, you won't need the racing engine.

That said, the NASCAR experience was the closest to the real thing in specs and all. Except for the F1 cars.

 

When you're going fast on track its not a question of if, it's a question of when. You are taking a big chance and most times by far you are ok. It will happen and it always does to someone.

 

Track days on motorcycles at Texas World Speedway commonly see "new to track" level 1 street riders obtaining speeds well in excess of 130 mph by lunch of the first day on the front, banked straightaway.

Level two guys are easily going over 145 mph after one or two track days.

The fast level 3 people that have proven their skills or have racing licenses can break over 160 mph on liter bikes.

RIP to this young woman. Motorsports has an edge that can cut. My sympathies to the family and friends.

 

RIP

This is why I drive a Camaro GT1 thats built like a bridge

 

Absolutely, and once you are at speed on a bike up on that huge banking, your sense of exactly how fast you are going changes. You always think you are going slower than you really are.....until you have to drop off the banking into the infield.

About 10 years ago I rode at California Speedway on the AMA layout during a WERA-West (I believe) practice day. I was tucked under the bubble on the front straight topped out at 130 on my 250GP bike. An RC51 superbike came by me on the high line going somewhere close to 160-170. At those speeds, an accident is likely fatal, so there is no room for mistakes.

 

It's not the speed that kills -- it's the sudden stop.

I did one of those NASCAR experience programs at Lowes Motor Speedway in Charlotte, NC a few years back, in an old Winston Cup car with 650 hp. We did 5 laps with an instructor in the car, and then went out and did 20 laps by ourselves. I was hitting speed between 160 and 170 on the back straight there, all in 4th gear. Didn't shift at all once the car was up to speed. It was fun, but I'd never do it again.

On the road courses at various tracks, I regularly hit speed between 130 and 150 in my C5 Corvette Z06. On the back straight at Pocono on the "long course" setup, I was always up between 145 and 150, sometimes a bit over. And there were C6 Z06s, 430 challenge cars, some Lambos that would blow by me like I was standing still. We were all amateurs, and there is very little room for error.

This past year, I didn't do a single track event. The past couple of years, it seemed to me that more and more people were getting out on the track with little or no experience and no formal training, and assume that because their car can go 170 or 180 or 200 mph, that they can too. I saw too many bone-head moves, too many close calls and too many accidents that could have been really serious if they had taken someone else with them, that I finally said enough is enough. I had my fun, I lived through it, that's enough for me.

Put simply, no one is paying me enough money to put my life at risk. When it was folks who took the sport seriously and followed the rules and things were predictable, everyone knowing what the other guy would do in a given situation, it was fun. But with guys who have too much testosterone and something to prove to everyone else on the track, no thanks. It just stopped being fun. YMMV, but that's my view of it.

 

From my recollection of the discussion of the Carrera GT crash by John Draneas, an attorney who wrote a column or two about the incident for "Sports Car Market" magazine, the participant's waiver of liability is invalid if "gross negligence" occurred on the part of the event organizers. Also, the waiver may not be effective against the participant's estate, which could sue for wrongful death. There are many legal avenues that can be pursued at $500 per hour. As others have already said, the lawyers will have a field day with this.

 

"From my recollection of the discussion of the Carrera GT crash"


That lawsuit was a joke IMO. I was sorry the defendants settled.

 

+1

Same thing could happen in this case again. Andretti has deep pockets.

I'm still amazed that there are ANY track events left after the CGT crash. After that happened I decided that our club will never have a track event as long as I'm involved. Way too much risk for the organizers if waivers can be pierced.

 

It's not so bad if you just slide.
I hit the deck a few time at about 150. You just slide really far, and then check to see if anything got worn off.

 

It's sad that this opinion exists and may be limiting track events.
Actually, providing there is proper insurance in place with reasonable limits, there is virtually no risk for an organizer of a track event. Just as you carry insurance for driving a car on the street, insurance transfers risk. Insurance for track events can be had for relatively little money.

 

You're so right there should be no room for mistakes. We should not take chances with speed once on the road, we have only one life to live we should not waste it.

 

Events that are held properly and at proper venues carry very little risk...

 

I agree with you only in that Porsche ended up paying 8% of the final $4.5M settlement.
Accodring to description below, I'd have put more of the blame on whoever designed and allowed the playground area and associated barrier location. They deserved to be sued to hell and back.

http://www.iwsti.com/forums/off-topic/101775-fontana-carrera-gt-crash-outcome.html

 

"I'd have put more of the blame on whoever designed and allowed the playground area and associated barrier location."



I disagree, and probably won't make any friends with this post, but I take a hard line on this one. I am aware of incidents involving what I believe to be gross negligence on the part of a track or sanctioning body - someone here told me a chilling story - but this isn't one of them.

This incident involves two wealthy guys playing racer in very powerful exotic street cars at an oval. Walls that can kill you are everywhere, nothing was hidden.

Each signed a release that allowed them to play racer.

Forget the release - it's obvious that driving ultra high performance cars around at very high speeds can be lethal - everyone knows this. Driving underpowered cars on the street can be lethal.

It's entirely forseeable and predictable that unanticipated events happen during track events - whether it's another car's mechanical problem, or a flagger waving a car out in front of you. That's part of the risk. Years ago at a PCA DE, I rounded turn 1 at Mid Ohio, fully committed, only to encounter a complete idiot who'd come out of the pits and immediately moved all the way right, where I was tracking out at full throttle. Oops.

Porsche built the CGT as a limited production supercar. Its handling may be dodgy at the limit. Its limits are very, very high. All of this should be obvious. You take a CGT on track and it spins, and you blame Porsche? Drive better next time, if you get one.


I'm truly sorry for the loss of these two enthusiasts. Still, they were big enough boys to handle the risk to car and person until that risk came due. I think in general people need to grow the **** up about the risks of so called performance driving. If you want to be as safe as possible on track, then choose a car and your equipment accordingly, and use conservative judgement in assessing your fellow drivers, the track, the conditions, your own skills, what will happen to your family if something happens to you, etc. That's what grownups do.

 

True Fact....thanks, John.....

If Mario was so well off, I doubt he'd be continuing to 'work'.....fuel for the Lear ain't cheap!!!

 

No, it was a road course.