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Williams F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by BJMoravek, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. furoni

    furoni F1 Veteran

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Pedro Braga Soares
    Not true, there where some bad moments, particulary in 73 but nex year they where championship contenders.
     
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  2. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    In 1973, which was a bad year for thee scuderia, Ferrari finished 6th in the WCC, out of 12 registered teams.
    They were not last like Williams.
     
  3. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Brian is right. Ferrari was on the financial ropes a bunch of times - just that it was so long ago people don't remember it. In 72 -73 when Enzo was not well with kidney infections, it was close that Ferrari could just close up racing. from 63 to 66 - 67 Ferrari was on the financial tight ropes until the FIAT deal. from 1970 to 1971 Ferrari was a laughing stock, on the grid. could not get out of its own way. in 91-96 Ferrari again was totally lost. billions of dollars spent for nothing. I think in 1991 - 1992 they did not win a race and only lead one race. talk about embarrassment.

    Williams is slightly different in that its still a family run business.... which may or may not be the problem. I think the retirement of Patrick Head was a problem - with Frank not capable of doing it all on his own. Loss of major sponsors for what ever reason is a big hit. It would be sad to see Williams leave F-1 or close up shop. I remember seeing Frank Williams back in 85 at the airport ... and the next time I saw him was in a wheel chair in 87. that he has stuck with it deserves respect.
     
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  4. Gatorrari

    Gatorrari F1 World Champ
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    In 1969, Ferrari tied for last with BRM; they were the only teams that did not win a race.
     
  5. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    William Denoyelles

    Yes, you are correct, and I was wrong.
     
  6. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Very true. Ferrari's refusal to sell to Ford in the early 60s, did cost him a lot.
    Not only he didn't get the financial backing he needed, but now, the Americans wanted to humiliate him at Le Mans.
    Ferrari spent a fortune to contain the Ford onslaught, at the expense of the F1 program. I think that's why Surtees left.

    After Ford's departure, and the FIAT rescue, Ferrari now had a new rival at Le Mans, and kept diverting resources to endurance.
    When Luca de Montezemolo was put in charge of the Scuderia, he managed to convince Ferrari to concentrate on F1 and forget Le Mans.
    Ferrari's fortune in F1 improved from then, and soon Lauda won 2 WDCs, etc ...
     
  7. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    I agree Ford V. Ferrari war was a huge drain on him financially. I think the real reason Surtees left is a combo or lack of development and that Surtees was working with Lola on his own sports cars - and they looked too similar to Ferrari 330 P series... that Made Ferrari's folks mad - Dragoni did not like Surtees - instead wanting to promote Bandini and Scarfiotti... and other Italian drivers. he had a huge distrust of Surtees. the blow up on who started in which car at LeMans was really just the match that lit the powder keg... the accident Surtees had in the Lola and design similarities is what sowed the distrust in Old Man Ferrari.
     
  8. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    I can't see where are the design similarities between a Ferrari 330P and a Lola T70 Mk I myself, apart from a vague bodywork resemblance.
    The Ferrari had a spaceframe chassis, the Lola had a far more advanced monocoque chassis.
    Surtees raced Lolas in the Can Am with the blesing of Enzo Ferrari, precisely because the experience aquired on a monocoque could be used at Ferrari in future.

    John Surtees never really expanded on what was said when he went to Maranello with his lawyer to resign from the Scuderia.
    To my knowledge he never mentioned the Dragoni situation explicitely, but the British press printed about it at length.
    What he mostly complained about publicly was that Ferrari was diverting technical resourcces from the F1 program towards sportscars.
    Endurance was the priority, and what sold cars; Ferrari's reputation was built on Le Mans, the Mille Miglia and the Targa Florio.
    Up to June, the main activity at the workshop was to build, test and develop new Le Mans racers for the Scuderia and privileged clients.
    That enraged Surtees who was essentially a single-seater racer, who never raced much endurance before joining Ferrari.
    In those days, a Ferrari driver was expected to race in Grand Prix and endurance. That only changed when Lauda came on board.
    Also, Surtees was flabberghasted to discover at the annual Ferrari presentation, that the car for the new formula had been built around an "old" block.
    The engine for the new 3L F1 car was simply a destroked 330P V12 unit, over-engineered and over-weight for this purpose.
    That told Surtees all he needed to know about Ferrari's intention to really tackle F1.
     
  9. spirot

    spirot F1 World Champ
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    Agreed.
    I think the issue on the Lola was the suspension ... which is strange since Ferrari was so antiquated. in the Ferrari Rex book the story goes that Enzo was convinced that Surtees was working for the "English" ... and that his accident had taken the sharpness away from him... so it was somewhat the same when Lauda had his nurburgring accident.... Ferrari did not want him to go to another team, but was not convinced he was still a strong driver....

    I'm sure the suspicion went the other way when Surtees saw the 312... beautiful car... woefully slow & heavy down on HP. Dragoni and Mancardi were the ones pushing Scarfiotti and Bandini... ( Dragoni was a Bandini strong supporter) I guess in the end well never really know.
     
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  10. william

    william F1 World Champ

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  11. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

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  12. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Canadians are getting to be known as the rich kids of F1 :)
     
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  13. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    It also looks like all the Canadians go through Williams : Jacques Villeneuve, Stroll, Latifi ...
     
  14. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Good point.

    Although Villeneuve's Williams was vastly different from Latifi's Williams. How low they have fallen.
     
  15. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Do you also remember another rich Canadian kid that made it to F1 at BRM once? He also drove CanAm cars.

    George Eaton of the famous Eaton family going back to the 19th century that made a fortune with a chain of supermarkets in Canada .
     
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  16. Nuvolari

    Nuvolari F1 Veteran
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    Correct Eatons department stores were are institution in Canada until they went bankrupt a few years back. In fact the main shopping mall in downtown Toronto is still called the Eaton Center. I also remember that George Eaton's son raced in Europe around 2000 making it as far as Formula Renault with Manor Motorsports at the same time they were running Kimi Raikkonen.

    Latifi comes from a family mainly in the food industry and their family is actually wealthier than Stroll.
     
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  17. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    'Sliding OT but, wasn't John Cannon Canadienne? 'Member him from Can Am. 'Had his one win in his aging M1B at 'Seca beating Hulme in his M8 by a lap.
    He had come up with a set of rains left over from the F5000 race on Sat. that worked better than the Can Am rains. (He moved on to short stints in Indy cars and F5000; 'did a few F1 races too)
    (Speaking of Eaton...he finished a credible 3rd in his old M1C in the 'Seca Can Am race.) ;)
     
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  18. ingegnere

    ingegnere Formula 3
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    But the good ones (one?) go through Ferrari!
     
  19. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Wow, nice piece of history. No, didn't know that. My serious interest in F1 started with Alan Jones and Clay Regazzoni in the Williams. Of course my Swiss bias led me to it: Rega leading the British GP was an unheard sensation. And then Jones being denied of the WDC chance because of the two half season points rule. So pre 79 is only something I know from books and documentaries.
     
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  20. 05011994

    05011994 Formula 3
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    May 1, 2004
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    Per Motorsport.com, long time Willams sponsor Unilever is leaving to sponsor McLaren.
     
  21. Isobel

    Isobel F1 Veteran
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    That was a great win Cannon orchestrated, a true underdog victory against the B+D show. John was a Brit who immigrated to Canada. No one has mentioned another Canadian who was in F1 with the minnow of all minnows, Osella, Allen Berg. He now owns racing schools at Laguna Seca and in western Canada I believe. Peter Broeker also deserves a mention as he qualified last in his underpowered Stebro car and finished his only F1 race at the Glen in a creditable 7th, albeit 22 laps down.
     
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  22. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    It doesn't seem to get better for Williams this year then.
    I hope Latifi brought a lot of money with him.
     
  23. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    William Denoyelles

    It doesn't seem to get better for Williams this year then.
    I hope Latifi brought a lot of money with him.
     
  24. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    One question is how good Latifi actually is with an F1 (he does not need to be bad just because he's rich) - if he's half decent it could be a new start for Williams...
     
  25. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    William Denoyelles

    We should know that very after a few GPs.
     

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