Williams F1 | Page 22 | FerrariChat

Williams F1

Discussion in 'F1' started by BJMoravek, Mar 3, 2011.

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  1. Etcetera

    Etcetera Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Dec 7, 2003
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    I'm not even remotely close to the team, but their lack of results in 15 seasons points to systemic upper management problems within the company. One lucky win in 15 seasons is plenty of proof of that.
     
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  2. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    IMO, the team is moribund.
     
  3. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    Not sure whether they could survive - many historic teams vanished over the years (in random order, Lotus, Jordan, Ligier... not to mention BRM, Brabham, and so on).
     
  4. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jordan became Midland, then Spyker, then Force India, and now Racing Point (a silly name).
     
  5. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

    Jan 21, 2017
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    IIRC (the latest iteration of) Lotus became Renault and Minardi became Toro Rosso, but it's more about the buyer taking over the assets than the team changing name.
     
  6. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    I hope they survive! But they clearly have issues, both in terms of chasing moneyed drivers and the hassle that causes (look at the Brat Stroll, probably added nothing but negative impact during his time; and what did the Russian bring other than money?).

    They need a sensible seasoned driver (Sorry Kubica is not it), to help develop the car and get points on the table. I think Russel is doing a sterling job, but a) has he enough experience to help develop the car and b) is he destined for a team further up the field? I wouldn't be surprised if her replaced the Brat next season.

    They also need some management changes, either in personalities or structure; but probably both!

    Fingers crossed they turn it around.
     
  7. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
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    Dec 11, 2006
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    The latest iteration of Lotus (“Fauxtus”) was the former Benetton. Easier just to call them “The Enstone Team.”
     
  8. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Veteran
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    Mar 19, 2017
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    As a big supporter of Kubic's comeback, my disappointment in his results is enormous. But I don't know how he can get in the car and drive it. I would think that his own pride would compel him to swap positions with the reserve driver and then begin looking for another venue to go racing in. Maybe even get into team management and ownership the way Andretti and other former drivers have done. He can blame the car for coming in 19th...but he can only blame himself for not beating his own team mate...in the entire season.
     
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  9. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    The original team was Toleman that gave a leg up to a certain Ayrton Senna.
    The team was sold to Benetton ran by Flavio Briatore; they won 2 titles with Michael Schumacher.
    Most of the technical team left to Ferrari.
    Renault bought it, still with Briatore at the helm; they won 2 titles with Fernando Alonso.
    Years later, the crashgate forced Pat Symmonds and Briatore to leave.
    The team lost its sponsor IGN, and Renault sold it to Genii ran by Gerard Lopez.
    Lopez rebaptised the team Lotus, and recruited Eric Bouiller to run it with Kimi Raikkone at some point, and also Grosjean.
    After a few years, the team faltered and was bought back by Renault.
     
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  10. Rosso328

    Rosso328 F1 Veteran
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    Yes indeed. It started life as Toleman. Thanks for reminding me.

    All that said, The Enstone Team never had any real ties to the actual, Colin Chapman Lotus team. I would argue that Tony Fernandez’s Caterham had far more claim to the Lotus name due to the Proton ownership of the road car company.
     
  11. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Gerard Lopez (Genii) and Tony Fernandez (Air Asia) tried to cash on by resurrecting an old famous name, for which they had no real claim, and started to sue each other for doing so.
    It was utterly pathetic. The courts couldn't decide, so you had a Lotus team, and also Team Lotus. Completely ridiculous.
    Fernandez blinked first and renamed his team Caterham after he bought the kit car company.
    I don't miss any of them.
     
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  12. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    645
    Toronto
    Bottom line is , they must be in the black or close to it . I know they have another division that is profitable , I stand corrected but I believe it is called Williams engineering or close . Thing is , F1 is a business, it has to make sense . Anyone who falls in love with a sinking ship better have a solid plan to turn things around otherwise , good money goes after bad money . There can’t be lineups of sponsors given the sad results on track year after year and paying drivers can only get you so far , so the question is , why have they not sold out ?
     
  13. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    I doubt anyone has the stomach to want to buy them out for a start, buying f1 teams is rarely lucrative, and even the best teams (aside from Ferrari) race and break even, let alone make any money. Plus, I don’t think Frank would ever sell his baby, to anyone... when he passes, I guess we’ll see what Claire thinks about legacies and keeping it
     
  14. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    To me, Williams is the typical case of an entrepreneur who starts a company and becomes very successful for a while.
    While he is at the top, he finds it legitimate to extract maximum dividends, inflated salary and all the perks from the profits to reward his effort, accumulating a huge personal fortune on the side.
    But when his company starts to decline, he expects others, like banks, sponsors or other investors (shareholders), to bail him out, whilst refusing to put some of his own money back to save his enterprise.
    I think that's the case with Frank Williams, from what I have read.
    According to Forbes, he made several hundreds of millions of £, during the years when when the sun was shining on his team.
    The divorce with BMW was also financially beneficial to him, it was said.
    But since, the F1 team has been steadily declining, to almost reaching oblivion now.
     
  15. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
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    I think you are getting ahead of yourself here . Pure speculation what his finances are and how he handles them , and quite frankly , none of our business . If he is smart , he would not reinvest in a sinking enterprise , maybe it it isn't sinking but it sure doesn't look healthy from the outside . There is no way a team can be a consistent loser and be rolling in dough , one needs deep pockets to sustain such a downturn . It will be very interesting to see where they will end up , i know what i would do , i would try and sell and salvage whatever i can financially
     
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  16. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    But then he cannot expect others to do it either !!
     
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  17. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

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    I am not sure where the suggestion came about that he expected other people to invest in his company . If they do they do and if they don't they don't . It all comes down to how goes of a sales job one does when looking for $$, you are selling a vision , a potential or it could be that you are sitting on a piece of crap and nobody will touch you
     
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  18. daytona355

    daytona355 F1 World Champ
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    Investors pays their money, and takes their chances..... business 101. No one owes anyone else a living. Frank is a shareholder, as are others, he built the business from scratch and he is entitled to reap the rewards. Things aren’t going so well, but that is NOT franks sole fault, but as highest share holder, if he gets the most wages, so what? Capitalism, baby, good luck to him
     
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  19. Ferrari 308 GTB

    Ferrari 308 GTB F1 Veteran

    Feb 21, 2015
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    Don't worry too much about Williams. Once the Latifi's get their boy wonder in the seat there will be plenty of cash flying around.

    Then they just need to get the car to go around corners a bit faster...
     
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  20. bmwracer

    bmwracer Formula Junior

    Mar 2, 2004
    645
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    The Latifi’s Have been in the picture for a while now and they can buy the team for snack money . There has to be more to it, but there always is . My guess is huge deal breaker is not the outright purchase price of a down and out team but the cost of rebuilding and turning said team into a winner , which in today’s terms means a few billion dollars . It is one thing committing to a few hundred million dollars , it is another when that turns into billions . The return on the investment has to be worthwhile, writing off a few billion to feed someone’s ego is not on too many entrepreneurs bucketblist
     
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  21. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Let's also not forget that Lafiti Sr (a man richer than Laurence Stroll apparently) is now a shareholder at McLaren, to the tune of $250M.
    I can't see him investing in/bailing out or buying Williams, although Dieter Mateschiz has 2 F1 teams !
    It's possible that Lafiti Sr buys a seat for his son, to replace Kubica, for example, but no more than that.
     
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  22. A348W

    A348W Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2017
    1,741
    North Wiltshire, UK
    Looks like they are slowly closing the gap; either that or the Brat is even slower this fp3 than normal!!!

    Hopefully the former!
     
  23. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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    Williams posts significant financial loss after poor 2018

    Source Motorsport

    The Williams Formula 1 team has posted a significant financial loss for the first six months of 2019 as it pays the price for its poor performance last season.

    The team tumbled from fifth to 10th in the world championship, which has led to a drop in this year's income from the F1 organisation.

    In addition, it has lost the income associated with drivers Lance Stroll and Sergey Sirotkin, as well as previous title sponsor Martini.

    However, it has gained a new title sponsor in ROKiT, as well as Orlen sponsorship from Robert Kubica.

    Nevertheless, the F1 team generated revenue of just £46.3m in January-June, compared with £60.7m last season, generating an EBITDA [earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation] loss of £16.8m, after posting a profit of £0.2m in the same period last year.

    The F1 figures were offset in part by an improved performance for sister company Williams Advanced Engineering, which increased its revenue from £21.5m to £30.9m.

    Total combined revenue for parent company Williams Grand Prix Holdings fell from £82.6m to £77.8m, with the overall EBITDA loss increasing from £2.7m to £18.8m.

    "Our financial results reflect a challenging half year for our F1 operations, yet also demonstrated continued growth in the Williams Advanced Engineering business," said group CEO Mike O'Driscoll.

    "The F1 financial results primarily reflect our finishing position in last year's Constructors' Championship and the consequent reduction in prize money (which is paid a year in arrears).

    "There was also an overall reduction in partnership income compared to the first half of 2018, although we secured major new partnerships with ROKiT and Orlen.

    "Although we are enduring another tough season on track, we have seen some recent signs of improvement, and we continue to attract interest from potential partners as one of the longest standing Formula 1 teams.

    "This is best demonstrated by the recent two-year extension to our title partnership deal with ROKiT who will now continue with us until at least 2023."

    Williams will clearly take another big hit on F1 income next year as it heads for a second successive 10th place in the championship.

    However, O'Driscoll remains bullish about future prospects, stressing the importance of the 2021 regulations.

    "Negotiations with Formula One management and Liberty Media regarding the future of the sport from 2021 have been productive and we believe, when finalised, will represent a much-needed opportunity for Williams to benefit from a more level financial playing field, as well as new technical regulations."

    He added: "Although we continue to face challenges in a very dynamic environment, we currently believe the majority of the impact on EBITDA for the full year has already been captured in these interim results.

    "We continue to believe we are well placed to respond to the challenges ahead, with world class facilities and a strong and talented organisation."
     
  24. william

    william Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 3, 2006
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