Will there be a NEW manual transmission Ferrari model?

As a snowboarder.. FYI no difference to skiing, I just happened to learn first on a Board' in the 80's. IMHO same thing just depends on what you learn first.
I've seen this above. And with the 360 the number of young men and women FYI under the age of 25 that come over and say to me "nice! it's a proper stick" is easily 80-90%. They'll stay on the stick IMHO.
The key is you separate the general auto market that is dominated by idiots that can't drive, don't necessarily like to drive and just want a car to go from point A to point B. These peeps in the last 30 years have driven automatics. They always will drive automatics or get an uber or self driving car. They'd rather be yapping on the phone or sexting or using some app than driving. They should not be driving. People that LIKE to drive will always be there and they do like driving stick.

I always chuckle when I hear a Ferrari owner talk about how the F1 paddles let them focus on their driving. IMHO only a fraction of newer Porsche and Ferrari owners actually take their cars and actually drive them. Unless they're turning off the ASR, traction control, and all the goodies.. the car is driving them. It's compensating for their driving mistakes, which for most is substantial.

 

I have experienced the same. Now a lot/most of these interactions are at an automotive event (show, track whatever) so these younger guys are not just a random sample audience but "car guys". Still, for those young people interested in cars, many seem to have interest for a manual transmission.

 

Which then begs the question. How many new ferrari owners have been dedicated car guys their whole life.

 

Id love to agree with you about he Mclaren F1 being a great driving expereince... but I think its pretty safe to say it isn't because of the driving experience. I would be willing to be that less than 1000 people have ever driven one. Most have never driven one and now that they are 15 million plus.. they won't get driven. Also, my arguement would be that the cars were valuable before this whole 6 speed 3 pedal BS bubble that took off... the crap that people wax on and on about 3 pedals and being connected to the road etc... Such a BS movement... Most were hype men trying to carve out a niche... it worked... until it didn't.

 

Nobody loves the old analog, three pedal experience more than me, but I also love technology. I’m not a throwback guy. If I had an antique car with a frot crank, I may love it, but I wouldn’t want them to make them anymore.

 

Its not about the stick, thats too narrow a focus youre making. A stick wont fix many cars.

Its all about purity of purpose.

 

You're not alone in the opinion of a hand crank starter. As far as I know, no one wants one. Not so many hand crank enthusiasts I know of in comparison to how many manual transmission enthusiasts I would guess.

 

I love manual transmissions, and it would be very cool if they offered it again, I just don't see it. I hope so.

 

This is the best explanation I have read yet. I love manuals. If we are to follow the mindset that paddle shifts are moving things forward then the self driving cars is the next logical step. Count me out.

 

It's like phones... You can have one that just makes calls, but it's not going to compete with a smartphone. Same as pure sports cars. Lotus did it and they've been teetering on bankruptcy now for years... it just doesn't make sense to build one.

 

I would be interested in a Lotus if it had a great sounding high rpm naturally aspirated V6 or V8. Supercharged 4 cylinder toyota isn't doing anything for me, even if the power to weight ratio is decent.

 

A famous friend of mine in the music business is a car nut and had Lambos, Ferraris, and Porsches. Many others like Bentleys too. He got a Lotus Elise and sold the other sports cars because he stopped driving them. What he never knew he wanted was a tiny tossable car, and he loves that thing. Wouldn't do it all for me, but it did for him.

 

I'm sure it's a lot of fun! I like the light weight and simplicity. Is the sound of a 4 cylinder toyota going to send tingles down my spine? No, and for me that's an important component.

For others I'm sure that doesn't matter to them as much.

 

Agreed on the motor. Ironicaly the Highlander V6 in my exige V6 sounds great and is at elast as smooth as my boxer flat 12. It has humble origins but is really great.

 

Its like women. One day synthetic robotised women will do everythig "better" in bed, I'll still want the real thing.

Lots manages to sell 2k purist cars. Thats remarkable considering the brand has close to zero chachet outside of those in the know, ie drivers. You dont buy a lotus for nay reason other than to drive it. And thats just lotus, if you include focussed porche and a few other youll see purist drivers car is a 10k units + per anum.
Ferrrai would love to sell an extra 2k cars.

 

If it starts.

Purists are vocal but they never vote with their pocketbook. Or at least they didn't when the manual was offered on the Cali, 599 and 430.

 

Gt3, Gt4, Lotus, Vette Grand sport Various Camaros, Performante, actulay lots of purists out there, who buy what 10+k cars per year for a premium.. Arguably a speciale was a purist car, juts not attainable.

Ferrari just deigns not to build.supply such cars for people who want them, so sales go elsewhere.

I'll take myself as an example. Maybe I forgo one or two other purchases to do it, or save to 3 or 3 years, but If I am really motivated I can buy a 400k car I can and will. I am not going to be kissing a dealrs or caompaneis ass to do so. I am not going to buya string of used cars I dotn ened or wnat to do so. I wnat to be able to walk into a showrroom, order the car wait 6 mos or 2 years and take delivery of my new car.

I am not a billionaire or unfathomably wealthy. just someone doing reasonably well and following my lifelong my passion, putting my rewards into my passion, great drivign cars.. Money has meaning and relevance to me, its not a swinging di=ck club, its all about the machine and how it goes.

Cars are a obsession and judging by my posts here elsewhere and cars spread across 3 garages I spend and inordinate amount of time on them. What cars I buy I buy to keep and they are in my judgement seminal great driving cars, theres no resellign or flipping. With rare exceptions I buy new, I really really use my cars and like to start with somethign fresh, I keep up. A new car where everything its been through I know, this is especialy important for me who takes cars to the track for excercise, and experience has also taught me that the cars first few thousand miles speaks volumes about its state of mechanical longevity 5, 10, 20 or 30 years later when i am still the owner and drivign it. So a car thrasehd, not warmd up properly etc by a transient owner is off my list. Plus If I am spending 400k might as well have the new car experience.

i am not the only person like this. The reason why ferrari is stuck around 8k units and 3 years ago reduced production "to maintain exclusivity" is because their product offering and retail experience is very much limiting its pool of buyers.

In fact the ferrai I seek does not have to be a stick, just a raw viceral car, I dont need a whole bunch of cosmetic Cf to drive up the price by 50k.
If I look at what I have sent over the past 4 years I could have had a speciale at MSRp with a few options. It woudl have been used on road and track, I dont care about "depreciation" or mileage because I buy cars to use and keep. However such an option was not available to me from ferrari.

I have never eben driven a speciale, just a really dissapointign 458. But my impression, and it may be wrong is the speciale is the only new ferrari I can think of that i am really motivated to buy.

So yeah, maybe a meerly well off person, who really uses a cars performance envelope and is seen doign so by others, who is not lookign to resell, maybe this person is not someone who ferrai may value as a client. But frankly at this point, one needs only look at the growth of other manufactuers in this space to see its ferraris loss. IMo ferrari under luca became primarily about the brand, and too little about the product or customer who cares about the product over what the brand represents.

 

No.

I hope they'll relaunch the Dino brand with 488's V8 in NA form, however. 450hp, manual 6 speed in the 4c chassis. something like that.

 

I just read a article about the 911 GT3 RS and the Porsche development engineer behind the product. Why it doesn't have a stick and instead has paddles. What maybe 5% of the market for the GT3 RS are purists that would order a stick. His comment is looking like 30% of the orders for the GT3 are for a stick. GT3 is a "purist" car as it is. So why ONLY 30% of the orders for the stick? It doesn't make financial sense to build a "purist" car.. ESPECIALLY if you actually want to make money. That's why the GT3 RS won't be offered in a stick.

http://www.caradvice.com.au/599017/porsche-gt3-manual-doing-well-but-wont-be-offered-with-the-rs/

This simplified car that all the purists will buy. Yeah a small percentage might actually have the money to buy the car new, but the rest are ordering their Ferrari and Porsche with a PDK because they're old and want to feel special going to the golf club. I suspect only a small portion of Exotic owners are "purists" and actually drive their cars above the recommended speeds in the corners. Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to have a stick Ferrari or a stick GT3 RS.. the GT3 is the only new Porsche I'll get as my next car in a stick.. but it's not happening and I agree with it.

The other thing that bugs me is if the "purists" are truly into 3 pedals... why not convert a 458 to stick?

 

It would be a massive undertaking to do this and have it remain oem appearing/functioning. Easier and similar money to just buy a manual trans Ferrari to park next to your 458 rather than convert one.

 

The approach I would take is (if the geometry aligns) a 355 transmission (note clutch pack is behind the transmission) and then take out the pedal box. Reduce the size of the brake pedal mount at the hinge, and add a california clutch pedal to the mix. Use a clutch master cylinder from the 355. Then Flash ECU as needed.. Won't cost the price of whatever $2xx,xxx they'd charge for a basic Ferrari with a stick.

 

Bellhousing pattern the same? Room for the shift rod? (no cables). Shifter/console/pedal box is not an easy task but certainly do-able. Also need a splined adapter to bolt to the crankshaft flange.

Reflash ecu's to what? There's no manual 458 version. So you have to delete/disable the tcu entirely.

The trans is too integrated.

So now you have a manual trans in place of the dct the ecu is expecting, how do you program that out of the loop and keep traction control/active handling working? (and reprogram for no E-diff?)

Gear indicator on cluster?

This is a way bigger undertaking than you're thinking. My example was to put a 360/430/whatever manual trans Ferrari next to it, not a new version they don't make.

Would be amazed if this could be done with full integration. More likely it would just end up being like a race car with aftermarket gauges and engine ecu (non obd2 compliant) to get this working

Big money either way.

 

Dont know what youre talking about. The 911 R was only stick and has the largest premium percentage of any porche in memory.
The cayman Gt4 was only stick and doubled cayman sales in one year.

The new 991.2 Gt3 comes with a stick option, even though porche only sold the 991.1 with paddles and thought that would suffice.

As to the 991Rs, if you have been in or driven one, thats essentialy a track car, as a viper acr was a track car even though technicaly street legal.. In fact you cant even use all the performance of a "regular" Gt3 on road, the Rs then is for showing off (as in I have it), or driving to and on the track, and paddles are great on track, theyre just a drawback in terms of engagement and enjoyment on road, and the compromise they put on road driving is not worth the track benefit in a car thats 50/50 track road use.

Interetsingly a numbe rof peopel who wnated to use their new Rs on street claim porchge went too far in terms of making it a tarck car.

the Gt3 which now offers a stick again(I guess the numbers do make sense) is ideal for road and track and close to the type of car were talking about.

Think of it like this, a 458 was like a regular 991s, the speciale may have been like a Gt3 Rs, and the ferrari equivalent of a Gt3 is totaly missing.

Also as I have said before, its not just about the stick. In fact the 7 speeder in a 991 or vette sucks.

 

I've heard this before on FChat... can't do this. Converting a 430 will be cost prohibitive, can't do a 599 you'll never be able to _______. In the end it can be done and the people that are the most vocal saying it can't are the ones that think a "coil pack" is a new hiking accessory. Used to be the 360 and 430 ECU's were black boxes from Maranello.
In any rate, there is no reason Ferrari would ever make a cheap Ferrari to capture market share in a stick and charge less for it just because it lacks bells and whistles. Doesn't matter because it won't happen.

 

You're talking about cars that came from the factory with a manual trans, you think that isn't easier? -Everything- exists for them in a direct bolt on capacity and all calibrations also exist.

Assuming anyone can do the mechanical work and the parts actually fit (which would likely not) who do you have right now today that's programming the ECU, TCU(or removing), delete ediff, reprogram dash, reprogram traction control, reprogram body control module and end up with everything working like factory and passing emissions?

If anyone has access to program -every- ecu in the car and would actually take it on it would be a huge job. Flashing a manual file into a paddle shift ecu is one thing. On this car you would need to create the calibration from scratch for every powertrain module, rewire the car for no TCU, switched outputs on the trans for gear reporting. Reprogram for 355 gear ratios so speedometer is correct, etc.

Agreed it can be done, with aftermarket parts removing many factory functions and obd2 compliance.

You think this will be done over a few weekends at anything less than obscene cost, best of luck to you.