Will there be a NEW manual transmission Ferrari model?

Its a rod, I guess on some older cars rod bushings can go bad.

on the lotus its cables, when pressed hard on track the motor is flexing in its mounts and the whole shifter mechanism is a bit flexy, so what feels good on the road becomes imprecise and soft on track.

Ferrari boxes, when warm and at max attack you can really slam those gears back and forth, they are precise relatively quick and nothing is going to get hurt and you would be extremly untalented to slot the wrong gear, they are for want of a better term endurance race style boxes,.
A ferrari box is really built for max attack duty cycle, as such it does not have that light easy femme feeling in trafficky conditions and is not instantly useable from start, nor is fine wine, unlike say a beer.

In any event a new box should benchmark a 997 gt3 as should imo any new ps steering system..

 

Hmmmm... yes and no IMHO. When cold, they're like a Belarus Tractor I had growing up on the farm. Warm, they're in step with my 997. The difference is in the gate, not with the engagement. I think the clutch actuation has a bit to do with it, but I think it's on par with my Porsches when my 360 is being driven down a curvy country road. The engagement in my 2009 Mini Cooper was adequate, it was a bit notchy. 928 with its solid rod was slow and archaic. Second gear synchro in 928 also fell apart over the years.

 

Would be very cool to see..agreed.

 

Yes and no means you agree with me.

 

I'd say the chance of a new Ferrari with a manual transmission is pretty much zero. That's not the way the company has elected to go. You're about to embrace the SUV and hybrid era. Plus:

NA engines = dead due to the environment.
Manual gearboxes = low consumer interest and outdated (see Lamborghini's CEO interview, in which he says cars are now more complex than ever, and they can't have such an important and sensible component as a gearbox not speaking to other systems).

Ferrari won't go back, like it or not (I actually don't like it, but I'm a realist).

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

I agree with this. And while I love, and only own, manual gearbox Ferraris, a stick shift would not make a Speciale or an F12 much more exciting at 75 mph and 4000 rpm on some of my favourite roads in the UK. It would need a paradigm shift, which is not currently in the technological repertoire.

We all have different dates on when Ferraris 'got bland' at road speeds and obviously many people think this never happened.

 

i agree with this, its not just about the stick, and for that matter nor is a stick fatal. But here is also no need for tech to be the problem. it shoudl be a solution, its meerly a function of execution and vsion. Nor do i object tot eh cars ferrari makes today, there is clearly 8k clients for it. More so the problem is ferrari does not make any cars today(or rarely produces) with the raw excitement of old, for driver who find that appealing, which is probably 90% of the older car buyers.

 

I recently got a chance to drive the new Acura NSX. This is a nearly 4,000 lb mid-engined sports car, filled with multiple engines (gas & electric) and all kinds of electronic wizardry. When you shift, there is no sensation, and the car drives like it is on rails, whilst you watch it's impressive high-tech dash.

Yet, whilst driving this technically impressive car, I felt no involvement and no interest in driving it again. There was no sense of "G-d help me if I screw up..." sensation, nor any sense of connectivity to the road.

I would really love to see Ferrari just build a simple, light-weight, agile sports car that only has the latest passive (not active) safety features with a modernized 6 or 7 speed MT. Not only would that car be far more involving, it should be a lot cheaper too. It won't be of interest to the cell-phone talking group, but it will give real enthusiasts something they've been craving for - for a long time.

Performance capabilities of today's cars are already way beyond anything remotely possible on a public road. Lets focus on a car thats fun to drive at all speeds, whilst helping its driver improve their skills.

 

Mirrors my feelings.

While I would love to see a modern version of something like the 355, I just don't see them making it. Which is a shame because it could be so great and something I would buy.

 

Agreed here as well ^

Same recipe with new tech would be great. And by new tech I just mean materials, aero and engineering, not infotainment electronic tech type things.

My wish list would be-

-450hp V8, small displacement very high (9500) rpm redline. (so about 3.3 liter @135hp per)

-6 speed manual (dct optional) with very short gearing. Pretty much 355 ratios but an even shorter final drive to maximize 0-100 acceleration, even at the expense of top speed. (would still do 185 at 9500 in 6th)

-Keep it simple! 2800lbs wet. Because we (I?) don't need power everything, infotainment, E-diffs, etc weighing us down. Maybe a -lightweight- or -luxury- package option to keep everyone happy. While you're at it take all the crap off the steering wheel and give me analog gauges.

-Make it beautiful. I don't care if the coefficient of drag could be .01 better, I want it to be gorgeous.


Just my opinion. More likely I will keep my F355 forever than the above happening.

 

Will there be a NEW manual transmission Ferrari model?


No.

 

Now that Ferrari has shareholders, to say the company will still focus on racing only will be tough to maintain. They need to increase share price and in order to do this and still protect the Brand, will have to be strategic about this. There is noise regarding an SUV, which I hope is true apostasy! But if there is this noise, it means options are open. I could easily see the Brand doing "retro" cars that are three pedal for hefty prices. Think about an iconic Daytona with 812 Superfast technology, but still 3 pedal. Regrettably, this will be available to only Ferrari's best clients who have an automatic 100% increase in profits.

I work for a company in which Brand is extraordinarily important, so to see Ferrari explore and execute some of these options would not surprise me. Thank you for bringing this up and making me think about this.

 

In my opinion.. the benchmark is an e36 M3. 997 GT3 has nothing on an E36 gearbox. Also steering feel as well...

 

Maybe, I know people love the e36, I have no experience with them. The E46 which I have is far off the mark, but apprently a paragon of virtue compared to the moderns.

 

Ya the E46 is not good compared to the e36. The e36 is wonderful. There is no car with power steering that is as good as a E36 M3. Especially... I hate to say it a porsche... the steering feel of a 911 just isn't much of anything to write home about

 

I grew up in Europe on stick shifts and thought they were great.

Now I know it was only due to the fact that automatics sucked so much in the 1970s and 1980s. By the 1990s automatics were faster, more fuel efficient and by the 2000s there simply were no reason to continue with nostalgia. I still have a summer home in Norway, with a couple of fairy new Mercedeses with stick shifts, but that is only due to crazy tax policies in Norway that makes automatics extremely expensive.

Today, there is no reason to put a clunky human shifter in between a Ferrari dual clutch gearbox when computers are so much better at it. Instead, it frees me up to focus more on driving , and when I want to be in charge, I play with the paddle shifters.... So, NO, Ferraris will not bring back manuals, nor should they.... (my "humble" opinion)....

 

No reason? I think a few would disagree.

One reason would be people want it. As good as a computer is it certainly isn't reading my mind or matching would I would do with a manual transmission and clutch pedal.

Computers would be better at braking and steering as well so if we continue that line of reasoning you would prefer full automation.

 

Yeah e46 is a great motor in a heavyish too tall car. Its really the more modern iteration of a the origional M6. Great on highways, and some backroads as long as youre not seeking to go past 8 or 9/ths in cornering. If you can travel fast city to city the e46 is a magic carpet ride. The e36 from a sporting proposition is a different kettle of fish even with the USa spec motor..

 

In europe back when only prestige cars had autos and the power to make them work, so it was for most an aspirational purchase. In the USA except for some econocars in the 70s and 80s sticks were always a niche sporting choice. Different cultures. The sticl endures in BMW M4 and M5 because of the USA market demand.

Clunky human shifter, its all about interaction with the machine, somehting called driving. Today we have removed the human from the shifter, isolataed steering feedback to zero which then requires computers to bail out the driver at or near the limit, the throttle is meerly a suggestion for the computer to interpret in terms of whats allowable and "possible" within a net. Yeah you can turn all the nanies off, but youre still isolated and the feedback is minimal.

True on track paddles allow for max attack, they aclerate fatser and going into a bend you can have two hands on the wheel needing to only concentrate on brakign and steering. In this 10/10ths context they are a performance boon. In my opinion, paddles otehr than on track or traffic, are a limitation on driving engagement and therefore enjoyment. Really just an ersatz thrill.

There isa reason why the Mcalren F1 is so valuable, rarity is part of it, but I'll poist that while moderns are "faster" there is no modern that offers the same or nealry the same drivign experience. Thats whats lacking in moderns. Paddles are maybe a symptom of a larger malaise, because paddles in and of themselvs are not fatal.

 

Hi Boxerman, I hear the same from friends who are in my age group (50s), but very little from people in my kids age group (20-30s). Could this preference for manuals also be attributed to age, and what we grew up with?

 

It's the old analog vs digital debate. I think having a manual is more organic, raw, and fulfilling. I enjoy the connection between car and driver. It makes the hairs on your neck stand up for a simple drive into town for dinner or coffee. I've driven both and each has its ups and downs. I'm not quite 40 yet and I learned to drive manual before I had my license. I am a bit of a purist, but I'm also open to new ideas that keep the focus on the drive and the excitement of enjoying a Ferrari everytime you get behind the wheel.

 

My first car was a '69 VW Beetle and my second was a '74 FIAT X1/9, both manuals, obviously. So I don't care about supercar performance at the limit on a track, I care about the joy I get driving the car anywhere I go. Hence, I have a 308 and a 360 now. Sold a 456M automatic to get the 360 (I would have kept that 456M for the rest of my life if it was a manual). It's just the experience that I want. If you want the F1 experience, fine, I may try one out in the future, but I'm not interested right now.

I still say Ferrari should make a Dino 296 with that 2.9 liter V-6 they designed and offer a manual as an option.

 

Well were in the same age group. Many younger kids have not been exposed to manuals for one thing, and most are migrating from video games..
Interestingly the paddles became mandatory at ferrari when we were in out late 30s and early 40s, its our generation and the one older us that adopted paddles wholesale , apparently. I think it was for convenience in traffic ease of use and the promise that in a car with performance 99% of buyers woudl never use, paddles were even faster, the latest thing..

Meanwhile over in ricerland all those kids with hondas, they like manuals just fine. It will be inetresting to see when these kids have more $ whether they migrate to paddles in their sportscars.


Ill analogise to snow skiers vs boarders. For a while most kids became boarders, same with waterskiing. It was easier to pick up, and the inital progress was faster.
From what I read now many kids as they get into their 20s and 30s are migrating to skies. On the water its even sooner, the kids by the time they hit their teens are moving over to salom. Thats because on a board there is a limited experience unless you are pro pro. As explained by my neightbours 12 yo, on a ski its more challenging, progress is slower, but there is a a greater depth and range of experience.

There are many reasons why someone may choose one transmission over another. I have no doubt that in the 21st cetury the "majority" will choose some form of At. After all most driving is funtionaly in traffic. Very few drivers go on an early sunday am run on relatively desolate backroads. For most drivign conditions a modern ferrari might well find itself in, well a paddle just works is far easier and and is convenient. However for the dissenting 1/3 or 50% paddles like eps and other features just dont do it.

Anotehr anlogy. In many cars, ferraris in particular keeping the electronics on is actualy faster around a track. yet we are provided with the means of turning all electronics off. There is a reckognition that these nannies detract from the driving experience. On road, for a fast backroad drive manuals are the way to go, in fact just changing lanes and downshifting to pass manuals add something to the experience.. Ill add seerign feedback and a live chassis are equaly if not more important.
I guess it depends on how and where you use your sportscar.

If I am buying a car for 100% track use, then paddles or a sequential shift is the way to go. If I am buying a car for 50 50 track road use, the drawback of paddles on road far far outweights the small benefit of paddles on track, esp in road based car on track..

Back to my skiing anologies. The majority of new water and snow skiers start with boards. That does not make skies invalid, or boards better, they are just different. Yet we see as people mature with the experience there is a migration to skies. maybe boards are too punishign on older bodies, or maybe skies offer a depth and breadth that boards dont.

Maybe your intial point is it, kids who have never been exposed to manuals have no idea what its about, and maybe this tech generation is just attrracted to tech.
Possibly many(not all) of the older paddle drivers never had sportscars when they were younger, its somehtingt they are coming to later in life for various reasons, just like most new harley riders never rode or had a bike when they were younger. And maybe many older drivers had stick mgs and cant be bothered now, just liek they need a car easy enough to get in and out of.

Maybe though as we grow in life and experience more, like all things art we come to appreciate the deeper aspects of the experience and we will want manuals. Thats why imo at BMW where there was since the 2002 a large grass roots driver comunity, manuals were demanded in USA for M series. Over at porche we see the same thing with the Gt4 and Gt3. Its not a majority, but its a highly significant minority in the sportscar segment. Of car sales overall its minicule, excpet in sportscars(where some with money are) and hot hatches where youth aficiandos live..

At ferrari they are going to drive numbers by offering an suv. All those paddle aficianados are upset about a SUV. But they dont think that maybe a manual would give necessary additional volume and be a better option for the "brand".

The way I see it, ferrari wants sales and profits, not only a limited selection of clients. They will jack up the FF/lusso just as alfa jacked up the the guila to make the stelvio. The ferrari SUV will be awesome and just as fitting in wit the Brand as any 2+2 they ever made. Ferrrari will also look at success elsewhere. the market and consumer demmand and offer a classic series of cars, just as porche does and just as for that matter Ducati has found they sell more montsers and hyprmotards than paginale.

They will always offer a tech suepr dooper tech performnce car, and that will always have appeal. But just as with motorcycles, todays max performnce is irrelevant and beyond all but a few even on track. Therefore the charismatic driveable vehicle, with still excelent/superlative performance will have its place.

A veyron is faster than anythign out there, the new 720s is faster than any off the rack car. Personaly I would much rather drive a far slower 288,f40,f50 maclaren F1 than either of those two. Maybe I am a minority but I am not the only one

I wish paddle people didnt feel so threatened by this. Its like they need the validation of there being no stick, instread of following Paulchuas words, and seeing ferrari as a big tent..