Will the 12 Cilindri really be the last of a long line of Ferrari V12 masterpieces?

So your point is that ferrari cannot do a higher performance V12 in a front engine configuration?

If so then how do they do a next front engine NA V12?

With a turbo? Paired with a smaller V12 in order to meet regulations in 2029 and betond? And maybe with Electric motors to help it match or exceed the other models ?

Then thats not a VS 12 cilinidri

I dont know what Ferraris game plan is!

If you know then good for you

Tell us!

In the meantime I want to buy the v12 cilindri if I can get an allocation. But even though ive bought 4 F cars, my dealer network is located in a highly congested territory

Mayne you can help me solve that conundrum?

Anyway you WIN the argument.
Ferrari eill do exactly what you have outline for the reasons you have outlined!

 

As noted bw us and others on several threads, 100% agree. IMHO, this is the last unassisted regular production v12. When the sf90 became the top of the range, the writing was on the wall for v12. If the sf90 was limited it would make total sense but a v8 as the top of the regular production range?! That is the one move that I think would have done Enzo’s head in. With that said, it’s a different time and world. When I drive my GTS over my other F cars I feel I am closest to the legacy. I don’t own an sf90 but if I did, I still think the 812 would like the direct ancestor and closer to what was at the core of Ferrari. I hope I am wrong and a production V12 lives on!

 

see above

 

They won't wake up, as that would require a functioning brain, something the vast majority of today's population entirely lacks. And even those who are awake won't say/do anything, as they cower in fear of being "canceled."

 

I agree. There are many clues and Ferrari (as a public company with profit motive) is a lot more predictable today than in the old days. Leiters departure, Day 355's intel on the resistance internally to propagating more V12 GT cars and the electric / hyrbrid future becoming essential to push the power envelope and maintain competitiveness with other super cars while complying with emissions. Like it or not the future for Ferrari is clear. The name 12 Cilindri is a tribute to the V12 much like the F8 Tributo was for the V8. The launch of the coupe and spider together suggests a much shorter run is planned for the 12 Cilindri than previous V12 GTs. That is logical given where emissions regulations are headed and the unexpected popularity of the Purosangue which cannibalizes space for a V12 GT. These are not the only clues though. The F8 Tributo ported the 488 Pista specs just as the 12 Cilindri is a carbon copy in many ways of the specs of the 812 Competizione. I think Ferrari is making this car for the old Ferraristi (who arent TOP customers) to have one more V12 GT in the stable before it all goes hybrid, turbo charged etc... Many at Ferrari, including Leiters, said the V12 has limited headroom in terms of power and performance and to do so would require a rethink and lots of $$$ in investment as others on this forum have said. I seriously doubt there is any will within Ferrari to make such a commitment to invest - it just doesn't make any economic sense and hursts their investor relations as they try to position in a greener future. So, I believe this is most likely the last of the series production V12s in a GT format and there will NOT be a VS for this car but only time will tell.

 

You have Done a great job in summing up the V-12 situation as it stands today. There can be no doubt that their emphasis going forward will be on electric/hybrid cars, the NA cars becoming a thing of the past very quickly. The 12 CILINDRI most likely will be it for the NA V12's as we know them and a good chance it will be the last V12 produced. I look at this situation much like Porsche in the late nineties with the 993 being the last air cooled model they produced. Back then I said OK I have to have one of these, because this is IT! I feel exactly the same regarding the 12C, so once again I have to have one of these as well and I can't help but feel this will drive a tremendous volume of sales for this car, as many will just have to have IT!!!

 

Exactly like it! The 911 Targa has such a silly long hood for storing luggage, four wheel disc brakes, tires, lights and everything!!

LOL!


Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

I agree the 12c is likely the end of the road, but @day355 did mention three variants of the 12c. We've seen two, I'm assuming the third is a VS.

Now if the regulation climate changes and/or if EV demand continues to remain soft, then maybe a 12c refresh sees the light of day.

 

Yes, it is

 

These two models launched very quickly as you predicted, when do we see the VS? Usually it would be 4 years from the initial launch but I get the impression from your earlier posts that it might be sooner. 2-3 years out?

 

I like both cars - although to me a lighter look than the F12 and 812 both of which I think look a little chunky whereas these two look sleeker which, for me is a good thing. I don't remember your earlier comments but would be interested in your views on the design now that it's out? Also, interesting to hear you think there'll be a VS version and wondering what direction that would take as the base C cars seems to be going back to a more traditional GTS - which, again I think isn't a bad thing?

 

The 12C is not hideous, in certain colors it looks really good. Rear of the Spider is a bit bulky IMO.

But the design is nowhere near as good and timeless as 599, F12 & 812. Especially 812 looks both more elegant and modern than its successor.

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/ferrari-engineering-boss-turbocharged-v12-not-my-mind?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR0GHGUPTwgM6J5xIdUtLC3GTSDzsHk4AVpkLgO79CQqs5VUu_R3M6bU2hg_aem_AYJwWsnuWkEsUAlQh8YFtQFxD9IaMZw1zdEwTlWr3XyvGnd3tFGSiMyWZRNcK3j4IR3s3osFCBePcAs1idX3djD5

 

Based on Aston acting like the Turbocharged V12 in the DBS was the final V12, then releasing a new turbocharged V12 for the upcoming Vanquish, I can't imagine that Ferrari will be done after this. Assuming regulations will allow, they should keep making it.

That being said, it does appear Bentley is killing the W12, but I think on the most recent generations, the take rate was pretty low.

I would guess that if Ferrari CAN make a V12 by law, they will. Too much a part of their DNA.

 

I really like 12C, and the auto will be very sensitive to the configuration. The photos make her flat, which she is not at all because she has large muscles. The Delta wing needs to be understood in reality, don't worry... I think she will perfectly wear the "Sanu Silver" or the "Rosso Magma" with the rectangular NART shields on the wings instead of the scudetti. 3 Blue America" for the spider works well.

 

I don t know yet ...

 

I did a config in Rossa Magma and it looks amazing, IMO.

 

Same. What did you do for the interior? I'm trying hard to avoid black so blue may be the only alternative.

 

I actually did Rosso Mugello, stand corrected. I did nero and rosso ferrari on the inside. The darker beiges (couio and beige tradiziione) complement the reds really well if you don't want nero. I would have probably done beige but that's what I have coming in the 296. I am not sure I will order a dolci cilindri, I'm going to wait to see the Vanquish replacement.

 

The future for Ferrari's V12 engine rests fully with the EU regulations. Now that Euro7 is delayed, there is still room to squeeze out yet one more model.
The 12C was developped with Euro7 in mind. Perhaps it was even rushed to get it out before Euro7 was enforced. Now that the EU has delayed Euro7, there could still be some kind of future for Ferrari's V12. I do not think Ferrari anticipated that Euro7 delay. Had they known before I think this car would have been created differently!
I doubt this is a dedicion Ferrari will take lightly as the V12 is still held in high regard.

What Aston has done with tehri V12 with 2 turbo's feel more like trying to keep a virtually dead animal alive. That engine is in no way comparable to Ferrari's 6.5litre NA V12. the only direct competition is the new Revuelto's V12 despite having a hybrid unit.

 

F12tdf. I've owned mine from new. It has purpose plenty.

And a big collector who had sold their F12tdf a few years ago is now in the process of buying it back. Enough said.

 

I dont know why for one thing to be wonderful, another thing has to be terrible. Seems like an exhausting way to experience life.

 

That dark color shows Manzoni does not know how to design a well sculpted & integrated rear haunch- same with the PS.

Anyway. It was fun. I'm out. I see no future potential and Centro Stile's vision has diverged from what I consider attractive (in the entire line).

As I've stated before, this go around- 812 v 167 was my swan song. Going to put my money where my mouth is on Thursday and drive in to tell my SA in person. (Not a flipper.)

 

Would be interesting to know how much more than what he sold it for he will end up paying to get it back.