Will Ferrari dump Bridgestone? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

Will Ferrari dump Bridgestone?

Discussion in 'Other Racing' started by 4i2fly, May 19, 2005.

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  1. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    All good points. I think you meant Stuck (Striezel) and Roehrl. :)

    The cost argument never seems to work that well in F1, however I have read, that the teams indeed save money on refurbishing/manufacturing engines with the new rules. However they spend now more money in engine engineering...
     
  2. Neal K.

    Neal K. Karting

    May 9, 2005
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    Having finished 1-2 last season at the Nurburgring
    I think the Scuderia will at least be competitive
    this week in Germany, and maybe even victorious.
    There is no perfect team! McLaren, one year
    ago at this time, was burden with all sorts of
    "what-ifs". After finishing second at Silverstone
    behind Michael and ahead of third place Rubens,
    Raikkonen had the wing of his car completely fall
    off while chasing Ferrari #1 at Hockenheim.
    Then, there were all those engines that went
    "ka-blam-oh" for the perpetually-maligned Kimi.
    He went on to win in Belgium and finish the season
    with other podiums. Now, he's in a dominant mode.
    The Scuderia can easily turn it around this weekend,
    especially if the qualifying procedures are remedied.
     
  3. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
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    Hans and Walter....two of the greatest natural drivers ever. If you ever get a chance to see the rally video of Walter dancing on the pedals, do NOT pass up the opportunity......it's humbling.

    I agree on the money...........now they all will spend jillions MORE money figuring out how to make the new V8 configuration output the same as the V10..........it's just an air pump so it's got to pump more air per cylinder since the FIA dictated bore size to be same as current V10, so it will have to spin at higher revs and flow better somehow............but guess what?......the FIA is pretty smart by limiting 100 bar fuel pressure thru the injector, they also got rid of 5 valves.....2006 has to be 4.....they also banned variable inlet and exhaust and variable valve timing.....1 injector per cylinder, 1 spark plug per cylinder........cubic dollars are being spent in R&D at everyones shack since these rules were published
     
  4. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
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    I think Michael will win......but Rubens is fired up.....so we may see a "rejuvinated" Brazilian going against the "team" concept. Who knows.

    Now that we are down to only one qualifying session, I wonder how that will affect tire composition. Only 1 heat cycle before race time???????????
     
  5. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Todt actually thinks it is going to help the team.

    PS: Roehrl in the Manta vs Mouton in the Audi were the stuff my teenage dreams were made of. The man is a natural genius at the wheel. As much as I consider F1 the pinnacle of motorsports, I'm not sure F1 drivers are the world's best or whether that honor goes to rally drivers.
     
  6. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
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    I read that too. Wonder what they have up their sleeve? Could there possible be an iteration that actually can do only one qualifying and the race barely......with two qualifyings meaning it would not make the distance??? MAN I HOPE SO>>>>>>>>>>>


    Absolutely, I agree, rally drivers are a breed apart.

    FYI, did you know Mr. Roehrl had never driven a car on the track before he won his first road race for Audi? Straight from rally to road racing and zero need for "adapting". He's the natural of racing. Rumor has it, that Porsche hired him away from Audi, so they did not have to compete against him and have him on permanent retainer to this day??????
     
  7. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

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    One session quali with full race load may help the team with different race strategies. I cannot think it will help them otherwise...
     
  8. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
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    Schumacher: Every reason to be optimistic
    24/05/2005
    "Next race, hopefully better luck: maybe that's how you
    could best describe my expectations for the race at the
    Nürburgring," says Michael Schumacher, ahead of this
    weekend's European Grand Prix. "We haven't really had
    much luck lately, and so our very good race-pace never
    really paid off. Maybe that will change at the
    Nürburgring. The new qualifying procedure should work in
    our favour, because it's a well known fact that
    qualifying was our biggest problem in the past. Now,
    we'll be able to make up for the disadvantage we've been
    having through deciding on how much fuel to take on
    board. So those news are not bad at all.
    "The best thing we found out at Monaco was surely that
    we were absolutely competitive during the race," he
    continued. "When I took to the track with a full load of
    fuel behind Kimi I was able to keep up with him, and
    that's more than solid proof that we are right up there
    on top of things during races. So our chances of being
    among the leading cars are definitely there, and
    therefore I will continue to be optimistic.
    "The race at the Nürburgring is always nice anyway. The
    circuit is so close to Kerpen, where I'm from, and
    that's why I'm even more motivated than I usually am.
    Somehow that always makes me feel good, it doesn't
    create more pressure at all - as some may think. Of
    course, people love to think about the fascination
    surrounding the North Loop and the myth around the
    Nürburgring, but I like the currently used track as
    well. It calls for good balance and good mechanical
    grip.
    "Following my seventh place at Monaco, I want to be
    right up there fighting for the win during the race at
    the Nürburgring," added the German. "As I said: our
    recent performance gives us every reason to be
    optimistic for this race.
     
  9. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

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    MS said "The new qualifying procedure should work in
    our favour, because it's a well known fact that
    qualifying was our biggest problem in the past. Now,
    we'll be able to make up for the disadvantage we've been
    having through deciding on how much fuel to take on
    board. So those news are not bad at all.
    "

    How does this change things? Ferrari or MS takes on more fuel than other drivers/teams? Therefore the qualifying lap is slower due to extra fuel weight. if this is so how is qualifying Saturday alone going to make a difference? I am missing something obvious here I guess :confused:
     
  10. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Didn't know that, but am not too surprised. A mag (Octane?) recently had an article about the new Porsche that Roehrl helped develop. The reporter does a lap around Nuerburgring's Norschleife with Roehrl at the wheel. HILARIOUS!
     
  11. Tifoso1

    Tifoso1 F1 Rookie

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    Jean Todt and others at Ferrari has been saying that the F-2005 has a great race pace, as shown in Imola and Monaco. The car is balanced with full tank of fuel on board as in the 2nd QS. In the first QS, the car's fuel tank is set at as low as possible thus if you look at the differences in the time from Q1 to Q2, they are much lower in Q1. And now, going back to what it was a year ago, eliminating the pre-Q all together, you essentially only have what was Q2 of the previous races in 2005.
     
  12. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Aha! That makes sense indeed.

    I read an article in my favourite "Motor Sport aktuell" about the tires. The problem is, that Michelin uses a "wider" tire architecture that allows to spread the loads more evenly thus making the tire more reliable, which in turn allows them to run softer compounds.

    Bridgestone realized they need to develop the same tire, but that will take time. It sounded like it will take more time than there is in this season, but they might have it for next year. Also next year RBR will be on Bridgestones and hence spread the load of development.

    So all in all it sounds like sticking to Bridgestone might pay back next year, whereas this season remains a bit of a gamble.
     
  13. MalcQV

    MalcQV F1 Rookie

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    Ahhhh I see too. Sounds like things are on the up.
     
  14. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
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    You know that makes sense at first thought..........However, Michael ripped off some VERY fast laps, I think fastest laps in race at Imola right before pitting for fuel. So I'm not so sure the "weight" thing is affecting the tires as much as the speed of the car. I still think it's time and heat into the tires. Full load of fuel may work the car harder and heat up the tires quicker than light????? Only Ferrari and Bridgestone really know.

    I think what they are referring too is it will now force all the teams back into a qualifying strategy mode. See you could run on a light load of fuel and plan to pit early and do two stops or a heavy load for one......like it was in years past. Remember, Ferrari had some incredible luck with fueling strategy in the past.
     
  15. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

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    The width of the tires are regulated although last year Ferrari/Bridgestone raised a flag with FIA that Michelin were in violation of the tire manufacturing because they had a square (in turn wider tires)...but they didn't get anywhere with their protest. I am wondering if the above refers to the same type of development at Bridgestone where the tires look squarer at the edge and not rounded off like their current construction. I said it before the tire geometry as discussed above will have adverse affects on suspension and aero-package, consequently it will add significant development time.
    And, with all do respect with the tight partnerships between Ferrari & Bridgestone if I am Ferrari and I can have access to tires today for testing that I know will last through the race and prove to be good through qualifying why would I want to risk another season with one team tire company and leave the next season to chances?
     
  16. tifosi12

    tifosi12 Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Yes, I didn't do a good job in explaining.
     
  17. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    The comments by Michael and Jean Todt are based upon the simple fact that now Ferrari can actually do what they do best.

    Strategize!

    The change in qualification means that Michael can now run on a vey low fuel and make up positions in qualifying. It has been a season where race pace hs not mattered because those who qualify in front, end up staying there at the end. Except for Michael's and Ruben's courageous comebacks.
     
  18. Koby

    Koby Formula 3

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    5 years of unparalleled domination vs 5 bad races? hummm, that's a tough one....
     
  19. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    If it's a tire problem the F2005 is suffering from then a light fuel load will not help anything. In fact the lack of weight may make it harder to get heat in the tires for a hot lap.
     
  20. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    But that could be strategy. Ferrari could have a heavy fuel load and stay out longer during the race.
     
  21. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    Running on heavy tanks would be the only way, such as was shown at Imola. The car is not fast enough over one lap to take such a risk on light tanks. If they take that chance then say someone goes faster and they end up in the second or third row they would have to pit early which does them no good at all. Also does anyone know, do the rules allow for a tank big enough for going the whole race without a stop or do you have to stop at least once? If there is no rule i'm surprised no one tried that at Monaco.
     
  22. imperial83

    imperial83 F1 Rookie
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    The fuel tank size has certain restrictions.

    http://www.formula1.com/insight/rulesandregs/14/479.html

    Running on heavy tanks is not the only option! There are several other strategies based upon different tire compounds and car setups.
     
  23. racerx3317

    racerx3317 F1 Veteran

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    Nothing else seems to have worked at all this year. A light fuel load will only work if you have a fast car and can build a lead. While the Ferrari maybe good in race pace it may not be quick enough to get pole regardless of fuel load. A gamble.
     
  24. 4i2fly

    4i2fly Formula 3

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    I guess you can have as much fuel as you'd like but the restriction is to make sure the teams don't use the fuel as ballast and as long as the car is at least 600 Kg they will pass the regulations.

    It may actually work to Ferrari's advantage a la Imola where his car was much heavier than others with fuel and he could turn fast lap after fast lap if he had the open road. But there is also the flip side where a car with heavy load of fuel will be hard to control and turn fast lap in quali as was the case in Imola, one mistake in one corner did cost MS a few spots in quali. But I am hopeful MS will turn good quali lap and the strategy will work for him...we just have to keep in mind that Kimi is also a good driver with tremendous car control and he could also have a heavy load and still qualify in front.
     
  25. speedmoore

    speedmoore Formula 3
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    I think you need to look at the facts of Shuey. Once they got the gearbox fixed:

    San Marino, fastest Lap was Lap 48, the lap before his 2nd pitstop, light fuel load, this was also the fastest lap of the race

    Spain, fastest lap was lap 31, the very lap before his pitstop, 0nly 0.006 seconds off the fastest lap in the race of Fisichella

    Monaco, fastest lap was lap 40, pitted lap 24 and then 58, fastest lap of the race


    All fast laps on light, not heavy fuel load...................

    Personally, based upon only this information, and the fact that Michael holds the track record, it's his home track, and he will be jacked up..........If I was Todt I'd be putting in only enough fuel for about 10 laps tops and turn him loose just like they did last year...............where they ran a three stop strategy and pitted at lap 8, lap 28, and lap 44.
     

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