Why were double diffusers banned? | FerrariChat

Why were double diffusers banned?

Discussion in 'F1' started by TifosiUSA, Feb 22, 2011.

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  1. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

    Nov 18, 2007
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    Just wondering, I can see why something like the F-duct would be, but why the double diffusers? The cars are getting so damn slow compared to years past I don't really see the need to ban the diffusers. I mean 2-3 seconds a lap slow this year than last is a LOT...
     
  2. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
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    Good question.

    My intuition is that they are seeking to limit the amount of downforce, in order to aid passing. They are TRYING to slow the cars down.
     
  3. SSNISTR

    SSNISTR F1 Veteran

    Feb 13, 2004
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    Even if this years cars are a few seconds slower, they STILL are the quickest circuit cars in the world, so I am fine with it. :D
     
  4. TifosiUSA

    TifosiUSA F1 Veteran

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    I mean...why? I don't see why it's necessary to keep pulling the reins back on speed especially when cars from almost a decade ago would hand the 2011 machines their collective asses.
     
  5. omgjeff

    omgjeff Karting

    Mar 20, 2010
    65
    Austin, TX
    I believe the added down force from the double diffusers made even more dirty air behind the car which in turn made it even harder to pass.
     
  6. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    The double diffusers were banned for 2 reasons:

    1. They were a loophole that violated the spirit of the rules generated by the Technical Working Group to improve overtaking - the Group was specifically charged with slowing the cars down via reduced downforce and to improve overtaking, and the diffuser was supposed to be smaller to have less of a dirty air effect for following cars. It was Ross Brawn (along with Toyota and Williams) who spotted the loophole in the wording of the new 2009 diffuser regulations and discussed with FOTA about clarifying the text around diffuser specifications (without specifically pointing out the loophole); when he was refused, Brawn then was first to exploit the loophole. So, the diffusers in 2009 were supposed to be smaller and with less downforce, not bigger and with more downforce!

    2. Once the double diffusers were unveiled, they were challenged - but in 2009, the last year of the Max Mosley era. They should have been forbidden when first challenged, as it was an unintended loophole that allowed them to exist, but Mosley wanted Ferrari and McLaren to sweat (remember that 2009 was also the year of the FOTA breakaway threat), so since it was the underdog teams, Brawn, Toyota, and Williams, who had the double diffuser, Mosley decided to allow the double diffuser to try to cause a split within FOTA and to give McLaren and Ferrari more grief. Once they were allowed, then due process of the rule changing regulations meant they couldn't be banned for 2010.
     
  7. mousecatcher

    mousecatcher Formula 3

    Dec 18, 2007
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    It's not speed per se, it's the length of the braking zone and the aero wash.
     
  8. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    How cute. Looking for reason in F1 ;)
     
  9. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    You didn't like post #6?
     
  10. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    There are always good reasons for doing things in F1. The problem is that the reasons always follow the decisions not vice versa!!
     
  11. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    I liked the bit blaming scum Mosley..
     
  12. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    New tyres this year will cause the same effect, some will romp off some won't, when they give up grip.

    Changes to the technical regulations usually increase gaps between the teams.

    I'am all for it.
     
  13. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    IIRC the loophole was spotted and the diffusor invented by a Toyota engineer who then went to Brawn.
     
  14. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    Did this mystery gent stop at Williams along the way?
     
  15. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    He might have stopped by at Grove for lunch with a buddy on his way from Cologne to Milton Keynes... ;)

    I had heard that the DD concept originated at Toyota, and that an engineer took it from Toyota to Brawn, but it was Brawn who raised the subject of the diffuser regulation wording to the Technical committee to ask about official clarifications, knowing about the loophole that would completely invalidate the intent of the new regulation.
     
  16. kraftwerk

    kraftwerk Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Further to add to that, IIRC Brawn also raised the question of loop holes with FOTA and the FIA, for clarification without trying to give too much away.

    It lead to point of confusion, in where the FIA had passed it, then as the other teams mainly Ferrari I think realized the advantage Brawn had, complained, Luca butting heads previously with Mosley (FOTA v FIA) I reckon sealed it, it went Brawns way.
     
  17. Far Out

    Far Out F1 Veteran

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    Yup, that was my understanding too.
     
  18. Phenom

    Phenom Karting

    Dec 30, 2009
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    FIA wanted to decrease the downforce and the wake behind the car.

    Some teams found a loophole which did exactly the opposite. Brawn even tried to get everybody to lock the rules down even more in that particular area but noboy listened.
    Bet they regret that now though..

    The main problem for overtaking was that one car could not follow the car in front closely before coming out on the straight which ment it was damn near impossible to overtake because he was too far ahead.

    The front wing would get no air so that´s why you had to be seconds faster then the guy in front to really have a chance of overtaking unless he does a mistake.
     
  19. GordonC

    GordonC F1 Rookie
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    Whoops, correction, I meant the mystery gentlemen was on his way to Brackley, not Milton Keynes. If he'd stopped off at Milton Keynes for coffee, then Red Bull would have had the double diffuser too! ;)

    Right, and this was one of the frustrating parts of the FIA decision to allow the DD - the TWG and FIA had introduced the adjustable front wing as an aid to let a following car get a bit more front downforce and stay closer in corners, which theoretically was supposed to allow more overtaking on long straights following a corner. With the double diffuser, though, the turbulent wake was greater than had been expected from the single diffuser, and the front adjustable wing was thus not effective in allowing enough additional downforce while following a DD-equipped car, and the adjustable front wing rapidly became just a trim tab to balance the car for declining fuel loads, rather than a passing aid.
     
  20. VIZSLA

    VIZSLA Four Time F1 World Champ
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    In addition to Williams yet another team approached the FIA between seasons with a double diffuser design but were turned down because they didn't utilize the same loophole.
     

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