They cheated the right way: they didn't break the rules, they made rules that suited them. It has been working for politicians and the rich since the dawn of civilization, so why not in F1.
The title of this thread is misleading anyway. It should have been Why is Ferrari not competitive in F1 at the moment ? Simply because they are going through a bad patch at the moment. Like they have done in the past. The Schumacher era gave a false sense of invincibility for the Scuderia. Now it's back to reality, to the 90s mode when they were struggling.
Yes...I guess only old fa.ts like us can remember the eleven years of waiting between John Surtees title in 1964, and Niki Lauda's one in 1975; or the 21 years between Jody Scheckter's title in 1979 and Schumacher's first one in 2000. It's been 13 years now since the last driver's title (= Kimi's), slightly more than eleven, less than twenty-one. In truth, the Schumacher era gave a false impression of Ferrari's achievements; in the long run, considering the whole history of Formula One, they have rather under-achieved; the period we know since 2007 is actually rather "back to normality"... Rgds
Very true. Ferrari have always been at the top of the mid field. when the field is strong and competitive - Ferrari has struggled. When they have been Dominant they have always had a solid mixture of people behind the scenes. When Mr. Ferrari was alive it was all up to him. while he did not make day to day decisions, he decided who stayed... and you had to play that political game ... the winning years you will see there was a strong team management presence along with a strong driver... in the years that they were not doing well like after 1990 - it was management by committee... and that never worked. Ferrari needs a strong person at the Helm... Enzo, Montezemolo... so far those have been the only two to have success.... to me that is the problem. there is not clear boss of the whole thing... Binotto is a good guy but there is going to be political pressure... and he clearly gets hit with it. not signing Vettel for next year is a mistake...
Hi @spirot, I'm surprised you still are supporting Vettel. I have nothing 'personal' against him, just that it seems it's a lost cause. I was rooting for him even as recently as last week, but again he turns my hope into anger. Image Unavailable, Please Login
For those who are interested, a speed trace for qualifying runs from Verstappen, Bottas and LeClerc. The Ferrari seems to "fall off" above 270km/h Image Unavailable, Please Login
People...is why Ferrari is not winning...they do not have the right people in place. Car development talent is not where it use to be.
Ultimately, everything depends on people: design, management, development, tactics, and of course driving. They all have to work in harmony, and that doesn't seem to happen right now.
I'm an unashamed fan of Luca di Montezemolo: he saved the Scuderia from its lowest point at the end of 1973, made it a winning machine, without alienating neither the "old man" nor Forghieri, and this at 27 of age, no mean accomplishment. Then he came back in 1993, and saved the Scuderia once again, by appointing the right persons in charge of the crucial matters, protecting them from the press and letting them concentrate on their job; and he saved the road cars division too... I was really upset when he was ousted in 2014, BUT, that being said, when he decided in 2007, perhaps to satisfy Italy, that time had come to "re-italianize" the team, it has to be said that the team went back to "second best". It is Italy's national treasure, you have to go there to understand what it means, BUT it is also a highly political environment, with machiavelian machinations at every level; many are pushing, or pulling, in a different direction, and everybody is trying to push aside somebody else. They need a strong direction, efficiency. They do have eveything indeed: the equipment, the technicians, the money; what is lacking is efficiency and organisation and, first and foremost, stability and consistency. Luca was very good at that: he managed the politics and the press, isolated Todt, Brawn, Byrne from all the machinations and let them work. Obvisously, the last comings-and-goings, Domenicali made a scapegoat, Arrivabene ousted, Binotto designated, James Allison coming back and then leaving again, etc, etc...are not encouraging as far as continuity and stability is in consideration. Rgds
From this graph it's clear that in the first part of the track the problem is the engine. In the last sector it seems even that Leclerc can enter the corners at a higher speed than Verstappen and Bottas.
I disagree with those saying that "the problem is management, culture, bla bla bla". To me it seems that the issue caught by the FIA on the "enginegate" last year was something that was part of the engine design since the beggining. What I mean by that is that the thermodynamic modelling of the engine depended on that "thing" and by simply removing it the engine is now out of optimum state. If my intuition is correct, only a completely new engine design would solve the current problem. I can't understand how you guys can blame Ferrari management for the 2018 championship, for example. The car was clearly a championship contender but Vettel decided he preferred to spin instead. If Vettel did not have committed so many mistakes, he would had probably won at least one championship in the last 5 years.
Because he was trying too hard, and this due to the pressure from the team, from being the leader of the Italian national pride, from the press, etc... I am very much in admiration of what Leclerc did (mind you, it seems that he had an engine that was not fully compliant with the regs, however), I am only hoping that he will not be the next one to lose his potential at Ferrari; there have been so many others... There are many anecdotes about how the Scuderia works, but two come to my mind; I think (think?) they are from Alan Henry's book: "Ferrari, the Grand Prix cars", or perhaps from "Autocourse", I'm only quoting from memory. Patrick Tambay, that gentleman among Grand Prix drivers (a thought for him, he has been suffering from Altzeimer's disease for a number of years) said, when asked about Prost's situation at Ferrari in 1991: "I am sorry for him, because of the company's management and so many people taking so many opposite décisions nowadays; when I was driving for the Scuderia (=in 1982 & 1983) the "Old Man" was still very much in charge, and whatever discussion there might be, something was very clear: he decided, and after his decision, which might, or not, be what you expected, the buck stopped right here, right now, at his desk". Frank Williams, who knows a thing or two about managing a Grand Prix team: "When Enzo Ferrari fell ill, and then after his death, I thought to myself "now we better beware, because the Scuderia will be managed efficiently at last"; I was utterly wrong: after he died, there was a succession of inept executives who didn't know a thing about racing, and were put there by the shareholders; after Enzo Ferrari's death, there was no direction anymore, and everything went to shambles" I am pretty convinced that their first problem is of leadership, and consistency. Some things never change. Rgds
I was not aware of that. Patrick is truly a gentleman, he offered a ray of hope during some of Ferrari's darkest days.
(well, not Marc here, but nevermind...) Yes, as always with this illness (and others), it is a very sorry thing. He has been suffering of it for a number of years now ; it has been made public, but his family has been rather discreet about that; seems it is a slowly evolving form of the disease. Rgds
I'm sorry too: it's not from Altzeihmer disease that he is suffering, but from Parkinson's. I feel I have to correct, because with the internet nowadays.. As is Jacques Laffite, by the way, but apparently in a minor form. Rgds
I think some drivers just accept where there car is at and the position they'll achieve. I still think part of Seb's issue is that he can't rely on the team or the car. How many times in the last 3-4 years have they totally destroyed their chances due to the worst strategic calls. Ruining chances to even start the race because of bad spark plugs things. I think a guy like Seb just wants to win so badly... overcome what he perceives as the obstacles keeping him from the finishes he believes he can achieve that he just takes too many risks. Not an excuse... but I don't think he suddenly become the worst driver on the grid like some say. Ferrari has almost become an insult to F1 in some ways. A storied team, tons of money, experience, and resources and they've done nothing but gone backwards. To me that's just so unacceptable. How they're not fighting for championships at this point is remarkable considering the state of convergence in the tech.
Completely 100% agree. LDM was a very respectable leader - until he got too full of his success. when he left the day to day at Ferrari to take over Fiat Chairmanship ... that is when things went wrong... and then when the family came back in ... he was weaker and had to do the Italianization .... which was simply stupid from all points of view. Also the pushing of Schumacher out, allowing Todt to leave all was a huge mistake. That is what happens when you think you finally have this all figured out.... its very dangerous. I think LDM was lucky with Lauda and Piero who could work on the old man in the 70s... they could assuage the ego, and get the right decisions.... Forghieri was also someone who had to be managed to get the best out of.... but clearly LDM was there and did the work ... sadly I don't see anyone like that there now. I used to think Piero could try to assert control, but now he's too rich, and too diversified and timid to be in the lime light.
I'm not sure how long you have followed F-1. However from those that have followed Ferrari and F-1 since the 70's its clear that there are ups and downs and this is a down period. Ferrari has it baked into their culture of being difficult when they lose and horrible when they win. this is clear no matter who drives for them. they have wasted many talents over the years ... Amon, Ickxx, Reggazoni, Reutemann, Alboreato, Arnoux, Prost, Tambay, Alesi, Berger, all of these drivers were the "up and coming drivers of their generation" and all were a shadow of themselves when they left Ferrari. Prost and Reutemann an exception. How the team is managed is crucial to its success. You need a very strong central figure that cant be undermined. Enzo and LDM were those people. you cant run the team by committee. either the President of Ferrari is in F1 or not. ... you cant have a Team principal that is accountable to a board etc... there are too many decisions that have to be taken fast... and if team members think they can go around you to the board or President ... they will.... that breeds an untrustworthy working environment, cabals, etc... that is where Ferrari spend a lot of their time..... when it worked It was Enzo - team manager - driver - engineer..... decision made by Enzo . LDM - Todt, Brawn, Byrne, Domencalli - Schumacher ... it worked there was no dissent... today... its not like that. as for Vettel when he was at Red Bull - it was clear he was their Diamond... they took care of him... at Ferrari - he was just the driver a hired gun... they did not take care of him.. .and he did not build the team around him like Schumacher did.... fault on both sides. As a pure Driver Vettel is still one of the best.
I know Patrick, and his son Adrian... both great guys. Patrick was a very good driver who got shafted by Ferrari - Piccininni to be exact... he could have been world champion if he had not had a pinched nerve at the end of 82. I think he got a real bad deal in 83... sad to see him go. sad to see him with Parkinsons ... Adrian has been in and out of racing ... he's back this year hope he does better... he's had some bad luck and made some mistakes... but is really fast... especially in karts!
There was a "draw" ("une tombola", in French) two years ago where many pieces of memorablia were sold to finance his fight with the disease: https://f1i.auto-moto.com/infos/tombola-soutenir-patrick-tambay/ he was diagnosed in 2010, he was still rather young at the time, at 61. As you know him, you also know the gentleman he is: the news about his illness didn't make much noise at the time. He is always ready to share history, etc, but also a rather shy person about himself, and very private. Truly one of the last "gentleman drivers"... Rgds
