Why I hate McLaren

Yeah, you really started it with original thread title. Can't blame him. I blame you. Monkey see, monkey do.
And as usual, your comments never add anything constructive. At least 'boxerman' is trying.
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Yeah i know I have dyslexia and whatever, spelling if you can try look past the spelling.. Not trying to mess with anyone, just expressing an opinion and one based on some experience with the cars, and lot of experience with others.

For the record have driven the Mp12 back to back and back for a day outside tahoe with a carera gt we must have swapped seats 5x..
Drove another back to back with a 997.2 Gt3 and a 458. Have driven a 570 for day on road. A 570 Gt4 on track for 10 laps at lrp and ridden in a senna and 720 on track. Maybe thats not total experience but an impression is formed. I liked the cars, they were fun but were not compelling at least to me.

The 997 Gt3 to me was a seminal car for many reasons, even though its "performance" is now eclipsed, it was compelling.

One of the worst cars I have driven on track was a 599 it was shocking ferrari could make such a bad car. The F12 though on that same track was compelling even though Im not a front engined person for track. Its not that one was "faster" than the other, it was very much about the dynamics, things such as willingess to turn in rotation, braking etc.

I do tend to like cars that can go really fast, but also cars that require you to work and be engaged for that speed, ones that talk to you so you decide and control instead of having a total electronic filter. It also depends on roads. Highways can be fun with sledgehamer power, a back road you're mostly just then holding back.

For back roads being in a more balanced and nuanced car you need to work is simply more engaging and more fun. A few cars get it right for all speeds and conditions. the way one could meet out the power with such precision made the 997 gt3, its steering all made it fun on back roads as well as still having great go for the open road, thats part of what makes it seminal.

For the record, I like my BBi for what it is, which is a seriously flawed car by any modern standard thats great fun and totaly absorbing to get right on a road. If you can get it right then youre going as fast or faster than the guys moderns but whereas they're holding back by sanity in terms road of speed youre really absorbed.

I love my little 195 hp na elise because it does everything except highway well. I would expect a true supercar to get all the elise parts right plus the highway speed too. In 2013 I went to buy a new 458, while the car was great at 9/10th and above below that speed it was just a car to drive. Since going 9/10th and above on road in a 458 is implausible other than very rarely, and as its not really for track it seemed pointless. Instead for the same money(actualya bit more in the end) I had a 575 hp small block ford powered Gt40 built for the track. The limitations of that car were its downfall for me. Modern cars have great brakes and some crash protection plus aero stability. After the Gt40 I went with a lotus exige V6 cup car which hits all the spots for track, is useable and somewhat reliable, but still absorbs 10k every year in mechanical upgrades etc not counting consumables which run 1 k per day.


My daily is a Alfa Gulia which is better in every way than my e46 M3 except for the motor.

No one car and certainly no one sportscar does it all, but in their day a 250swb and then a F1 came really close, maybe one day Maclren will rediscover that.
But hey Im one opinion and in the end it all depends what you're looking for and whats a priority to you in a car.

I agree with others the thread title is a red flag, but I thought we were all mature and experinced enough to have a balanced discussion, they're just cars, each good and bad in different ways.

I guess some cant handle it, like the vette guys couldnt handle that the C6 had a rent a car interior, but truth is truth.

 

He is f'ing hilarious, I'm sure by design.

 

I drove one yesterday. Not close to Ferrari in fit and finish. The controls and interior gear all felt cheap. Engine Sound was uninteresting. Turbo lag wasn’t bad, but the F8 is the benchmark. Breaks were not confidence inspiring- and maybe I just need more time with them. Car was very, very fast and capable. Still a great machine.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Ferrari's fit and finish is average at best, far from any benchmark. Ill refrain from giving specific examples. The metal controls dont feel cheap either certainly compared to Ferraris plastic buttons that melt. Engine sound is also decent for a turbo car.

 

Global Moderator

THIS is why the thread title changed. Don't go blaming anyone else but yourself! If the shoe fits ....

>>> Already forgotten this - your reply to Mod: "Fair enough. Appreciate your work, will try to keep it on topic now then"

 

What part of "will try to keep it on topic now then" don't you understand?
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I was considering getting a 720s. Just miss. I have had Ferrari’s and Porsche’s for about 40 years. The McLaren just lacks something- sorta kit car feeling and I just don’t love it. Like it- yes.They have added competition- and that’s a great thing.

 

Yes, a balanced and reasonable discussion is always welcome. It its hard to take serious someone who has never owned or lived with the cars in question though.

 

Undoubtably "living" with a car reveals many hidden and subtle traits, forming a larger more full opinion. Its also true that some cars take much longer to bond with than others.
However no one buys a car they have lived with yet. Impressions are formed from objective datta and subjective driving experience leading to a purchase.

3 more or less solid days in Malcrens fully utilizing their eprformance on suitable road and track , back to back with other cars has formed an impression. I could go into more detail, but this clearly is a fan site so any crtique is unwelcome and Ill leave it at that.

Suffice it to say the potential is there, and its up to you the customer and myself as future customers to transmit that so more superlative cars are built.
Some apaprently buy a car because its the "fatsest" in the price range. For others its an affirimation of sucess or both. For many how easy and fast a car is on road is a criteria and I know MACLARENS are good at that.

I personaly buy cars and motorcycles regardless of badge based on how I feel they drive and work, and my intended use for that vehicle. Over the past 35 years the ones that form good first and second impressions for their use tend to work out well and not dissapoint. Some exceptions stand out.
I bought a countach because as a kid it was "the" car, in truth as car ts a horrible as a car.
The 458 was underwhelming to me as a drive for one drive, more experience with it has changed that opinion.
Everyone in period loved the e46 M3, so i got one as a driver. It took me a decade to bond with the car, and it never lit the fire, only after I had really changed the alignment and re-mapped the motor did it come alive. Maybe its had somethgin to do with USA tuning, but its still not quite there, too much body movement and yet a harsh ride. Its a sentimental car for me now, the alfa is simply so much better. The Alfa is a good example, it fomed a great impression on the first test drive and my impression has improved since. Great cars tend to feel great from the beginning and then grow on you more.

maclrens are fast as hell, they are conceptualy great, they're just not quite there and great cars yet, there are a number of reasons for this.

I get that if someone spent 350k on a car they dont want to hear critiques, and i get that someons use may be very different to mine so the car works for them in a way it would not for me.

When I buy a car I really like I keep it, not least because seminal cars come along not too often, and theres always something "faster" so that is but one criteria.

Right now IMO the seminal car being produced is the Apline A110, but we cant get those here.

The 488 I thought drove better than the 458 in a number of inportant ways but looked ugh, they really took a classic shape (458) and hashed it up. I assume the pista which does look great to me and is improved on the 488 may be the current sweetspot, but I have yet to drive one so its just an asumption.
The GT4 could be seminal if it had a Gt3 motor, but it does not.
The current crop of GT3s are great tools but not seminal being too big and compromised as a result, not keeprs but yeah theyre cool for what they are as disposable cars that can play on track.

In corvette land the C6 z06 was seminal in that the vette team showed what they could really do, and it had a proper motor for the job, but for most the Zr1 was "faster" . We've yet to see any brilliance form the C8, but its ver 1.0.

The Pagani Zonda was seminal, close on a F1, the Huraya is art but like a Bugatti pointelss other than for road and to pose.

The T50 looks to be seminal. There's a vidieo inetrview with Murry on the car, Ill find it and post it here, I think it expalians a lot.

A lotus elise is seminal, one reason its been in production so long, even though by spec and price it has limitations.

Part of what makes any car seminal is how it feels to drive, all those feedback points at all speeds, a sense of occasion plus a whole host of other factors from styling to motor etc.

IMO Maclren is getting close, but theyre not there. The 600 though, they're getting closer.
Its like boats, some are classic in other words for their period and what they are they cannot be improved upon in terms of performance looks everything, others just go out of production.

 

Based on the article, looks nice, too heavy, breaks no new ground, basicaly a less expensive F8. If it weighted 2800lbs or less that might be something.

Macklarens are now below 3000lbs, thats the future.

 

Interesting performance numbers but hardly a "Mclaren killer". Looks wise, a pretty generic design with no features that grab you. Those corporate across the board Maserati tail lights ruin that special feel you'd expect from a super car, and the front looks super bland. I don't think many cross shopping a 570 or 600LT would choose a Maserati over the Mac. They both have terrible depreciation, but the Mclarens are far more special than a Maserati. And again, they are not necessarily an "exclusive brand" especially when Ghiblis are go for $60k new. I think that would be a detraction. So likely you'll get cross shoppers from TurboS, SL63 and C8 ZR1 and whatever Aston Martin has out these days.

 

The Maseratris to date dont seem to last past 5 years reliability wise if they go that far. Dealer experince in many acses is hardley upscale especialy service. This car is totlaly wired electronicaly and there was blurb to the effect that it monitors evreything downloads realtime to the mother ship so dont be naughty, plus its full of tech for the driver cause apprently we all have to have screens etc in our prius and sportscar, makes sense given the demographic and intended use. On principle I wouldnt buy a car like that, even though they all collect data now. Once any of those elctronics go bad youre in deep doo.

The motor may be more characterful than macalrens and styling the Italians do well. Its a R8 competitor. Marketing wise maybe thats smart given the hey look at my sucess street car customer base thats not quite at hey look at my sucess ferrari level. But if youre making what really going to be a low vloume halo car to pull in sedan and suv customers why not make somehting superlative. To me this car falls between two stools, it does not know whether it wants to be a luxury Gt or a true performance car,

Its longer and wider than a Hurricane, which means its not a small car. So far Im seeing another stylish luxury Gt masquerading as a supercar. Or an Italian Aston.
Looks nice, probably nice motor but Meh, and all for 215 k base. Why would you buy one of these over a new porche turbo, styling?

 

I’ll give the Maserati styling over the 570 and the motor Italians do great.
But it’s actualy a comparatively big and heavy car. I’d say it’s probably compromised so there can also be an electric version off the same platform.

interior I think the maclaren is cleaner and more purposeful. The Maserati seems uninspired interior wise a pity given the intelligence of the 4c interior and the great f8 one as comparative examples.

Plus in the not too distant future we’re going to see a ttv6 maclaren alrhoughnill question the hybrid part, but an electric flywheel worked on laferrari great and eliminates lag although ata. Weight penalty.

based on spec alone the current 570 mclaren seems a better car. Based on styling maybe the Maserati but it’s also Italian generic whereas the 570 really is an original

I’m not worried about maclklaren going out of business. I’d be more worried about Maserati dealers being able to support their product. have you seen some of their service departments, horrid does not even begin to describe it.

Let’s see who is going to build a non laggy light car. Ie sub 3000lbs na motor or flywheel assist so no lag. The closest so far is a cayman gt4 but it’s not exotic and not quite there power wise. The next 570 may be that car.

too bad Alfa didn’t build upon the 4c with their excellent ttv6 and proper a arm suspension. This Maserati at 3300 lbs is not that.