Why don't European and Japanese car buyers cross the line?

FYI, I have been driving BMW M cars as daily drivers for 20+ years now...one M3 and three M5s including my current e60 m5... However, my next daily driver will be a Mitsubishi EVO X due out early 2008...

 

We owned a BMW for 5 years, and now a Mazda. Both of them was/is a good choice!

 

Hmmm...haven't noticed that.

I've owned lots of both over the years. Porsches, BMWs, Mercs AND lots of Lexus and Toyota products.

 

OK, I'll bite. I've never been smitten with Japanese cars. I've had 3 Honda Civics over the years, but only as beater or daily driver cars as the situation dictated.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but Asian designers have done little more than create well-made knock-offs of European designs. It's laughable how they're copying the Bangle Butt now - probably BMW's worst direction in years. The impression I have -- again, painting with a very broad brush - is that Asian cars are what you buy when your heart wants the M3 or the 911 or the Mercedes, but your brain is wallowing in JD Power stats, legendary Lexus service, $35 brake rotors, zero repairs, etc. Or you just don't give a crap about cars and want something stone reliable, period, end of story. Because most of the Asian cars have had the soul engineered right out of them.

Frankly, Land Rover is about the bottom of the bucket in terms of quality. But if I had to choose between a RR Sport and a Lexus GX, I would have to choose the RR. One looks like fine sculpture to me. And even the baby Rover, the LR2, drips with a premium feel inside. It oozes luxury and style. The other looks like a brilliantly assembled 4Runner with a lot of tacked on features. It's like the navy blue suit at Mens Wearhouse, which gets the job done, versus the Armani - you put that on somehow it's hard to believe the wool came from sheep in both cases.

I can't name an Asian car that visually excites me. I kind of like the Infiniti G coupe, but it's hardly edgy or exciting - just very nice. Ditto the Lexus I350 - it looks very nice, but if a BMW 3 was sitting next to it and I could choose one, well...

The NSX wasn't ugly, but it's kind of a starched composite version of the 328/348 with a horridly tacky Legend interior. It looks like a CAD/CAM design that doesn't have the fluid beauty of a Ferrari or even a Porsche. And I'd consider the NSX the pinnacle of Asian car design, because they actually let themselves make something that wasn't practical.

The S2000 is nice, but compared to the Boxster and Z3/Z4 it looks unimaginative.

So, yes, I've crossed over for Civics because they're the best small economy cars out there. But all the serious money I've spent on cars has been on Mercedes, BMW, Porsche and Ferrari. To me, Asian designers just don't get what made the inside of my BMW 3 coupe (e46 gen) the kind of place you're dying to spend time in. Even with their crap ergonomics my Porsche 993 and MB SLK were somehow really upscale and substantial feeling and looking.

 

Die hard BMW driver here. Also had/loved/want another NSX. Family has had something from everywhere.

 

I like both. I've had a subaru WRx and a nissan 350Z but I like european cars.

 

Ive had both as well...

I think the Honda CRX was a beautifully designed car...same with the last gen 300zx and the first and third gen RX7s...all very good looking cars IMO.

But I agree with bullfighter in that they never QUITE make it to the level of design sophistication that the Europeans do.

 

I have had my fair share of both, I miss my old NSX and cannot think about parting with my wife's S2000 ( it is just too much fun!), but do not miss my BMW E30 M3 (it was a maintence nightmare, good riddence) and I can't stand the Banglized BMWs. Never been a much of Porsche guy other than the 993 TT and the new 997 GT3 and have driven a ton of them including a 959. Currently I just replaced an Audi S4 with an Audi Allroad, they are great commuters up and down the mountain to and from work and my fun car is a 1995 Ferrari F355. So I do not think it is a European vs Asian thing with me, it is just which car gives me the most fun and excitement.

 

I was a Mercedes loyalist for years, bragging about their quality.

Then came the 1999 ML320 ... that they had to eventually buy back from us via the Texas Lemon Law ... and then the 2000 ML320 that they SHOULD HAVE had to buy back via the Texas Lemon Law ... then came the 2002 C240 - lots of check engine and warning lights, a faulty a/c that no one could seem to get fixed, and other problems.

I finally asked myself, "Who the heck has time for this?" I then bought my wife a Lexux LX470, and myself a RX300, and neither one have given an ounce of trouble in 3 years.

HINT: Mercedes isn't a Mercedes anymore. It's a Chrysler with a Mercedes star on the hood.

 

I am the same when it comes to Porsche. How was the 959? It is also one of my favorite Pcars.

 

We have a Porsche and a Lexus.
Oh ya we have a suburban too.

But I buy european for looks, Japanese for reliability and American for size.

 

In terms of cheap performance cars I think the Japanese do fairly well. Theres some good Japanese performance cars like your S2000 or 350Z or EVO's and STi's. Sure there not the prettiest but they do perform well for there price. Theres not a whole lot of european options below 40K that seem all that appealing.

 

i have never driven a japanese car that has the life in the steering and suspension that european cars have.

but i have not driven an s2000, a miata or an nsx. all three are cars i am interested in enough to test drive.

i like the looks of the crx and the insight too. slick little cars.

tom w

 

Words fail me and all I can do is shake my head. Stand up and cheer folks. We now officially cherish mediocrity. Sheeshh!!

 

You're incorrect, it is totally practical and that is part of its beauty. Belts every 60k miles at half the expense, sizable aftermarket, far more rare with fewer things that go wrong. It doesn't have the sound, style, smell, or recongition of the 328/348 but it excels in every other area. I look forward to adding an NSX to the stable. Eventually I'll get a Ferrari, but the only for the few things it can do that no other can.

Sunny

 

I agree with that. Got a big American truck for the down and dirty, midsize jap sedan that ALWAYS works with all the bells ans whistles, and little red euro sports car cause its fun and looks great, also looking into some German models again.

Hopefully the Americans get back into the "looks" part of things also, like the old days when they set standards.

 

i'm sure i'm completely outside of the realm of cars your talking about, but aspired to owning a Mazda RX-7 when i was a teenager... i recently sold it and am saving for a Lotus Elise. for me, it was a matter of performance for the dollar and nothing i could find from europe had the same performance and price of a 3rd gen. Now that i can afford a better car, there are definitely a few options from across both ponds.

as far as toys go, i'd rather have european, the style and the passion can't be beat. for a daily driver, give me a mass produced and cheaper japanese car. i just have it in my mind that they are cheaper to maintain and will last longer (even though this is probably grossly inaccurate). unfortunately, i'm not at the place yet where i can dump $100k's on a daily and a toy, so it boils down to priorities.

 

i am curious as to when you feel americans set 'looks' standards.

tom w

 

I had an Rx7, but now I drive nothing but audi's and porsche's

 

My dad drives an Evo and a Lotus Elan. I drive a WRX and hope to drive a 2nd hand F-car ...some day. Price of a twenty year old 308 is in the ballpark of $55,000 USD here (Singapore), just barely affordable to me as a second car.

 

always drove Bmw's and Lexus as daily drivers...and always had italian cars in the garage,for the special moments...

 

i moved from my beloved nissan, to ford, to mercedes, now we added 2 more bmw's to the family still have a ford too, and one of our next purchases will be an acura nsx. so id say we have some crossing over going on

 

I have a Porsche Turbo, wife has a Lexus RX330. The vast majority of Japanese cars are boring to drive or look at.

The only one that I ever wanted to own was the last generation Supra.......damn, now thats a rice rocket!