why does everyone say michelin is at fault here?

if i am not mistaken, they put in that rule cuz ferrari was dominating, haha.

 

Cincy Ken, teams were in fact given the option to change tires as needed if they were only being changed because they were about to fail and if the change didnt give the car an advantage. I forget the urls but go to the Indy Motor Speedway website for links to the FIA website where postings of the conversations between the FIA and Michelin are posted.

 

WRONG .

As I said on www.alfabb.com:


Surely you are not blaming the no tyre change rule on this problem are you?

RS had his accident in practise ... on thus new tyres!

This was not a wear issue (and thus a compound issue) but a structure issue with the carcase of the tyre ... it could not handle the loads.

Michelin teams could have changed tyres every 2 laps and they would still have been worried ... the only solution , would have been to change tyres EVERY lap as this would have been a way to not go through the banked turn.

Now that would have been funny to watch.
Pete
ps: The issue was caused by Michelin being to thin on safety factors ... trying to get a performance advantage (and why Michelin shod teams have been winning so far this year). A set of Bridgestone F1 tyres are 6kg's heavier ...

Time for a control tyre from a single manufacturer IMO.

 

That rule is very subjective. The FIA can say whatever it wants after you change your tire. One of the huge problems with these rules is the lack of black & white clarity. Why would you risk your tire falling apart at turn 13, then pit after 4KM on 3 wheels every 10 laps, if you can even make it to 10 laps!!!! The point is, given the rules, Michelin made the right choice. Safety always takes top priority. The FIA could've put on a race if they removed that stupid tire rule, but no, they didn't. Now they will pay in lost revenues from future USGPs and maybe even other GPs protesting. They really f'd themselves up over this one.

Michelin did nothing wrong. They took blame for a faulty tire and recommended teams not to drive on them. Teams could've raced if they wanted to, but didn't because their drivers could've been killed. I would rather see no race then see 14 people dead. But that's just me...

Edit: When I refer to "tire rule," I'm talking about now allowing teams to use the Barcelona spec tires.

 

Was this the tyres that Michelin wanted to fly in?

If they had allowed this they would have had to allow ALL teams an extra practice on the morning of the race for safety reasons and to adjust the cars to suit the new tyres ... but theoretically ALL Michelin teams got an unfair advantage by qualifying on tyres that were not raceable.

But balancing this out would be the extra practice laps ... as I assume that Bridgestone teams would have sat this out and rested their engines.

Hmmm, seems like a sensible and balanced solution ... but unfortunately broke some rules.
Pete

 

Those were the tires they flew overnight and were at the track today iirc. It would've been unfair to Ferrari, but they could've always offered Ferrari a new set of tires/fresh engine/fuel load they want, etc. All I'm saying is that the FIA could've had a legitimate race today and they dropped the ball. I hope they learn from their mistakes.

 

Make sure you read the letters back and forth between the FIA and Michelin on the FIA's website.

As for the rules being stupid, they're not, they're just rules. Never forget that this is called Formula 1 racing. This is not Formula Libre where there aren't rules.

Everyone has to build a car to the same rules and all that happened this weekend is that Michelin didn't build a safe tire. The fans lost out on this one, but from a sport management perspective, the FIA did the right thing. They did the same thing when Minardi wanted to bend the rules by running last years car at the start of the season.

Remember, no one has to be in F1, everyone chooses to be there.

The rule book is what you have to follow if you decide to take part.

 

Yep, that's just one of many options that weren't pursued.

I hope that the owners learn from the FIA's inaction... and dump the FIA... it should be a league run by the owners!

 

Hear hear!

 

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135009889&postcount=12

 

WTF??? All of a sudden Whiting thinks he's a supreme tire designer? This guy should really keep his mouth shut, he's making himself look dumber and dumber. Oh yea, I also liked their idea of going 90mph around a corner with guys goings twice that speed, so safe, YAY!!

 

Good point...

 

While I agree that the FIA are morons, etc. ... what happens when an owner wants out?

Thus I do not agree that is in the best interest of any sport for the owners to run it. The owners are thus the race teams and as we will see again soon, the manufacturers will pull out when they decide that it is not in their best interest (financially, image, etc.) to be in F1.

Thus my point is the owners are NOT always interested in the best long term interests of the sport ... just that they look good and get what they want.

This is why Ford or Holden can not directly own a V8 Supercar race team in the Australian V8 Supercars series.
Pete

 

You just don't get it, do you?

There is a rule book. Michelin came to the race with a tire that couldn't last and asked for changes to be made. The FIA (Whiting) said no special privileges for you. Michelin said merde, better tell the teams it's not safe.

 

Maybe Bridgestone would have been happy to supply any of the safety-minded Michelin teams with "safer" tires.

I wonder how much of the politics of the "breakaway" GP organization played into todays event. Could this have been a show of solidarity from the teams wanting to form their own race organization hoping to give the current F1 folks a black eye?

 

Yes, the rules were followed, but I think more could've been done than just looking at a rule book. More negotitions should've been made between the Bridgestone and Michelin teams. You don't think it would've been fair for Ferrari to start 1-2 with new tires/new engine/whatever fuel load and all Michelin teams start 10 seconds later, but with new tires that Michelin says are safe? Everyone knows a race could've been raced today, but some guy who is narrow minded and glued to a book didn't let it happen. I hope he learns that sometimes bending the rules makes both parties better off in the end. Just because they're rules doesn't make them right.

 

It's Michelin's fault we had a sad race and very upset spectators. The rules is 1 set of tyres for saturday and sunday. If Michelin didn't get it right then too bad. But I have to say I hate this rule ..

FIA
1) First they told to the Michelin runners to simply go slower in turn 13. Stupid idea...
2) On tv I heard the guy saying that the Michelin tyres are safe for 10 laps and after that it can be dangerous. FIA accepted that every Michelin teams would be allowed to change tyres whenever they want to. Changing tyres at every 10-15 laps is not a good idea.
3) Ferrari didn't agree to have a chicane on turn 13 + Bridgestone runners would start infront + every Michelin runners get no points. Wow Big deal...
If some of you are upset because you guys wanted to see the chicane on turn 13 + the 20 cars on track then blame Ferrari.
This is an F1 race not a private test day at Jerez. Alonso, Raikkonen and the rest of the gang would just go there have fun and let the Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi's lap them. No one would try getting some good laptimes. And what's the point of risking peoples life if you know you get no points. Maybe it would have been better for the spectators at Indy and the people watching on tv (all the people who came from far, I can feel their pain). Atleast they would get to see their favorite driver/team more. Oh well...what is done is done.

Geez I hate all this political stuff...
Can't wait until we start talking F1 racing but that will be in 2 weeks (just before the French GP). For now...Michelin, Michelin,tyres, tyres, FIA, FIA, blabla.

 

CRAZYNOVA: Comprehend this. According to Peter Windsor, Michelin COULD have, SHOULD have tested, tires for Indy at England's Rockingham. They chose not to. Their first mistake.

According to me, this race has been held for 6 years, this turn is the same that a Michelin team had a serious accident last year. So why didn't Michelin come prepared this year? Answer: a really stupid Michelin team boss whose only statement today is that this was his most embarrassing day. DUH!

This IS Michelin's fault, this IS Michelin's stupdity, not Ferrari, not FIA, not IMS, Michelin should remimburse evey spectator that attended todays event.

 

Exactly -- FIA told the Michelin-shod teams that they had the option to tell their drivers to go slower in that part of the track as long as they didn't obstruct the other drivers. But instead the Michelin-shod teams chose not to run at all... that's they choice, NOT Michelin's direction.

 

See, here is where we disagree. Look at it from a team principal's point of view. Do you want to participate in a racing series where everything is up for negotiation every weekend and half the grid is complaining that they're not on an equal playing field?

Racing is tough enough without the rules being open for discussion every five minutes.

 

We have to opposing views here that probably will never meet , ie:

1. Racing is for the spectators and thus really a show. This view has the belief that spectators pay for the racing, etc.

OR

2. Racing is for the drivers and teams to prove themselves faster than the others.

I'm firmly in camp number 2 above and strongly believe that racing would still exist even if no spectators turn up. Now ofcourse eventually the money would slow, cause sponsors would not be happy ... but racing of some form would still exist. The fact that spectators can watch drivers and teams demonstrate their abilities is a bonus IMO.

BUT I do believe that there could have been more done in this case to get more cars racing.

1. I believe that allowing all cars an extra practice session on race day morning would have allowed the Michelin runners to alter their setup and confirm safety of the new tyres.
2. I believe that all Michelin runners should have been made to take a pitstop on the FIRST lap of the race and change ALL their tyres and taken the safety penalty ...
3. Race on.

Thus the Michelin runners would have had extra engine mileage and thus this delay in the race ... rightly giving a strong advantage to Bridgestone runners. Now if a Michelin runner won after that above penalties then full credit to them.

But as the FIA is running a race series and NOT a show, they did not do anything wrong ... Michelin dropped the ball, simple as that.

Remember **** happens and I had an Adelaide race (my first F1 race) washed out due to freak rain AND also Prost was sacked from Ferrari, thus I missed out seeing him race ... so buying a F1 ticket as a spectator does not guarantee satisfaction

Pete

 

I never thought I would say this, but Im looking foward to the nascar race! I think that Michelin should buy every seat from ims for next years event and let Tony George give them to this years ticket holders. Its sad to see this as a Indianapolis resident...this city (and ims) work hard to put on a world class event for everyone to enjoy. Now, disgruntled fans are cant leave the state fast enough. The only local business to do well in all of this is the airport! I hate to think that the racing, car shows, and people could all come to an end because Michelin coulldn't follow the rules. Seriously, I hear race teams out at ims all the time doing product testing. This race has been on the schedule for some time and there is no secret that the brickyard is banked.

 

Bernie was spotted leaving the track before the race was even over! To think he was given a leadership role!

 

Given? He bought the whole F'ing series! It's his sandbox.

I'm with Brian C. Stradale, time for the teams to find a new sandbox to play in, and leave BE out to dry.