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Discussion in 'Mondial' started by bigeasy, Jul 23, 2017.
Until the QV!
Such is the Mondial's perpetual fate, to be judged on the earliest model (only around 1 out of every 10 in existence) in all categories.
It would be similar to testing a 2.0 litter Ferrari tax savings special, and applying the conclusions on all 3x8s.
It makes easy click bait for auto journalists with their deadlines.
I haven't driven an EU Mondial QV, but happy to stand corrected
Funky is back!
That's the primary reason I believe the GT4 is getting more love than the Mondial. Let's face it - the Bertone styling of the GT4 is a bit different, and well - funky. Its styling was honestly an acquired taste for over 20 years. However, things have changed in the last few years and buyers and enthusiasts have been looking for something "different". Several years ago, the GT4 fit that perfect intersection of affordability, and exotic/funky 70s styling. Nothing else could come close and I think the instant demand from this newfound appreciation for "funky" exceeded the supply of solid, decent GT4s and drove the prices up overnight. Once the prices started climbing, people started paying attention and jumping on the bandwagon. Then scarcity-driven behaviors took over and drove the prices up further.
To reuse a prior posters 911 analogy (it is very applicable), Mid-Year (74-77) 911s painted poop brown (I like the color actually) and other "funky" colors couldn't be given away 10 years ago. Now those off-the-wall colors sell for a premium over comparable cars with more mainstream paint schemes.
I do think that there's an equilibrium taking place between the demand and supply for the GT4s at this point. I think it's already happened with Mondials. The were going up in 2015 and the 1st half of 2016. However, it seems that the prices have flattened on the cars. It's rare to see one sell for more than $35K much less $40K. The ones that do sell for more are exceptional examples. Except for a couple of models, the demand for Mondials so far hasn't outstripped the supply.
So, at the end of the day the prices are being driven by basic supply and demand, right?
I like the looks of the GT4.
If you squint a little, it kinda looks like a Countach.
Having said that, I think it should be ranked there with cars like the Uracco, and maybe the Jalpa!
And, having said that, I'll own up to owning an 85 Mondial QV. I love this car. It's comfy, sounds great, is easy to work on, sounds great, been reliable so far, sounds great, is fun to drive, sounds great.
Love that Ferrari V8 sound. I also think most people don't really see the subtle lines/curves in the Mondial. If they take a good look, especially at a coupe, they would see a gracefully curving, gorgeous body line.
And personally, who cares about performance for a 30 year old vintage car? I didn't get it for the performance aspect. It was the uniqueness, the mystic, the perception (to me) of driving something that gives you an experience that nothing else does.
Today's Forza shows Mondial 3.2 coupe prices as having gone up considerably. Prices are now listed as "$30,000 - $40,000.
The fact of the matter is..all the cars mentioned in this thread are "slow" in today's age. Want speed? Get a Demon. Want handling? Get an Elise. Want both? Get a Porsche.
There are plenty of modern cars today that go faster, louder, handle better, but none with the feel and sound of a classic prancing horse.
I've owned the supposed "Ferrari Killer" of the era - The Acura NSX. As great as the car was, it lacked soul. All my experience with the 70s-80s Ferrari has been sublime. I wish I have been lucky enough to have the opportunity to buy a 308 GT4.
I tip my hat to all of you, we are a blessed lot. I wish you all many continued miles of driving happiness.
Interestingly, this is one of the specific models that I had in mind that are probably the exception to the flattening price trend for Mondials. The 3.2 Coupe is probably the most desirable/sought after Mondial at this point if you consider the feedback on this forum and the WTB ads. With that said, there have been a couple of VERY nice examples in the past year that just haven't cracked that $40K ceiling and have languished for months if not almost a year on the market without selling. Keep in mind that this is referring to the U.S. market and not overseas. So, extrapolating those examples, what does it say about the overall Mondial market in the U.S. when nice examples of the potentially most desirable model of the entire line can't crack $40K?
Just personal observations...
I've always thought Mondials would be more generally desirable now if they had been named as:
308 GT4i, 308 GT4qv, 328 GT4, and 348 GT4.
I have noticed interest in the mondial to be on the rise in the last couple of years. They are a great driving car. Fast..not at all. But they Cruze down the highway better then most new cars. I really like them. The looks are not for everybody, but I think they are quite a good looking car.
Was difficult deciding which to sell. My 88 3.2 coupe or the 74 euro Gt/4. Love sharing the cars with young kids. The Mondial is slightly roomier, and with FI there is no guilt of smoking out the folks behind me.
Gt/4 has great light steering with a heavy clutch. The Mondial just the opposite.
Anyways both great cars. Gt/4's are much older and tend to have more needs, but also simpler. Fear of rust and sodium valves, carbs was a negative. Cruising around by myself the Gt/4 even with it's tired suspension was a blast to drive. At highway speeds the Mondial was nicer.
The Mondial won out for me in the end.
It's day to shine will come as it has for all Fcars.
Seen all the talk here waiting for so many models to be more appreciated. They all have gone up. Some happened sooner than others, but all of them have. We're all very lucky to own any model.
But regardless, love driving my t coupe.
The GT/4 has a vintage feel that the Mondial lacks. While it's the mother of a new class of Ferrari it also has a lot of traditional Ferrari DNA.
It seems that the market values the later Mondials more than the early ones. Those with performance and technology that are closer to modern Ferraris. Conversely it's the older GT/4s that command a premium. It seems that the market sees the GT/4 as a link to an earlier generation of Ferraris and the Mondial as a link to the future.
The Mondial is a fine car and is undervalued by the "experts" who've never driven one. It's time will come.
Interesting comments. The earlier GT4s were tied to an older time but they bled into a time with more regulations and big bumpers. The early ones are seen as a more pure design. The Mondial came into being during that time of big plastic bumpers but then grew up into a time of more consolidated bodywork. It's as if the GT4 grew into a gangly teenager but the Mondial started as a teen.
I love the plastic bumpers of the early Mondial, it definately makes it a piece of it's time. The later Mondial is of a more modern design that continues to this day. I think 40 years out when these cars are more in collections than on the road the price difference will narrow to an inconsequential % of value. Maybe the plastic bumper models will outprice the later ones over a long enough time frame. The future will know. In 50 years, those who know automotive design history will be able to immediately peg the early Mondial, the later model will be a bit harder. I like the defined moment.
This is a great post and I completely agree on all of your comments - especially the one highlighted above. I like the 3.2s most of all as I feel that they're the bridge between the original design and the t - blending elements of each. However, in the past year or so I've come to appreciate the QVs and their styling for the very reason you mention- the defined moment. They really are cars of the 80s.
"Defined moment" I like that.
Very interesting comments have appeared in this thread!
This is spot on. It also goes some way to reminding us why the first and last versions of each tipo are generally the most sought after. The former starts a new movement, while the latter draws it to a close.
Well said and I agree 100%. This is my reason for liking the 8 and QV the most out of the entire range.
cool photo from 1978
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Sid, I also have an 85 QV and you hit the nail on the head regarding the subtleties of the lines and overall shape and defining look of the black bumper and rocker panel stripes. I was out for a run yesterday with temps around 70 and the window open and that sound of that V8 filling my ears. Did you mention it sounds great?! And yes it is an overall experience that keeps a smile on my face whenever I look at it or drive it
As to resale, I did not buy it to make a profit. If that were the case, I would have left it in the garage for the last 4 years. That said, the value has gone up enough so I am now probably close to break even on cost and investment not counting operational costs. That's not bad for 4 years of mostly fun and joy with many years possible ahead. At a certain point, the use will bring a decline in value but then it will have been amortized over so many years that it really wont matter in relation to the enjoyment of driving pleasure given.
I agree with Gerald. Drive that sucker!
I meant to post this pic earlier of a recent "cafe et croissant" event just south of Bordeaux. I was placed next to a perfect 308 with an 89T cab on the other side. As much as I love the wonderful subtle curved lines on my QV, as noted by Sid, there is no comparison between our sporty cars made by Ferrari, and an exotic Ferrari sports car (even though really made by Fiat). Though a design out of the late 60s, the 308 has a racy flair that connects it to modern exotics of all brands.
By comparison, our refined, and late 70s/80s versions of our mondials, are far more sporty passenger vehicles, designed to take its passengers in style and comfort across Europe. It was for after the boy racers grew up and wanted a wonderful car to take them to where the other beautiful people gathered. That is not the idea of an fcar for today. It is an exotic, outrageously fast curvy engined monster that you drive occasionally to somewhere the valet parker will put it in the front row. And excuse me for a stereotype I do not believe. I'm saying, that is a perception of fcar owners. And mondials do not fit that perception. They stand alone as a product that filled a niche successfully for 14 years and an aprecianado market today.
The 308 has it all over our Mondis in terms of exotic-ness and raci-ness. It does not matter that mondial performance is equal to or better than many similar vehicles of the era including the 308. It comes down to what the perception of a ferrari sports cars should be. And that imho, is why 308s will reflect the rising collector market prices while our Mondials retain the respectable modest place they have for years.
You dont buy a mondial for an investment. You buy it to be able to drive a ferrari with all its qualities without giving in to economics...or rationality.
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So, you forgot (alphabetically), inter alia, Alfa Romeo 33 Stradale, ATS GT, Bizzarini GT, De Tomaso Mangusta, De Tomaso Pantera, Maserati Bora, Monteverdi Hai, arguably the Lamborghini Urraco, and most likely a few more...?