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Who should replace Vettel?

Discussion in 'F1' started by Flavio_C, Jul 16, 2019.

?

Who should replace Vettel?

  1. Alonso

  2. Rosberg

  3. Button

  4. Barrichello

  5. Other (please mention)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
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    #576 freshmeat, Dec 6, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2019
    It's a forum. We can all express a personal opinion and mine is clearly that I'm not supportive of Seb and the key to team red attaining greater success is for him to be replaced. And alas if he stays, then my bet is his "achievement/reputation/legacy/etc" whatever you want to call it, will only be diminished given the talent he races alongside with that is Leclerc. Seb will be embarrassed further. In Leclerc's rookie year, all the stats that matter have put Seb in a pretty dismal light.

    Some proponents argued that Seb intentionally tanked performance while at Red Bull to freely escape to Ferrari through a performance clause; well no excuses now and yet history managed to repeat itself...acknowledged as the #1 driver but somehow yet again pooped on by another rookie in his debut year. At Red Bull it was RIC, now it's LEC.

    Seb's a 4-time WDC, that's the end of his achievements, end of story. I don't see him winning another.

    Is that enough granularity to avoid taking comments out of context?
     
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  2. Giallo 550

    Giallo 550 Karting

    May 25, 2019
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    Plenty of granularity, and I agree with you completely. I probably should have read "=) Can't wait." as sarcasm.
     
  3. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    #578 I'm 360 Canuck, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    For Vettel, that would be like admitting failure/defeat and accepting responsibility for it.
    I can’t see him doing that.
    If he is anything, he is stubborn, entitled and selfish/self-righteous and unable to accept blame.
    Do not think he cares for 1 second what the fans think about him and factors that in his career decisions.

    part of the problem, is the culture of racing is different from other sports.
    In hockey, for example, if a star player exhibited these traits, the coach will punish, humiliate and otherwise “break” them....bench them from games, take away their playing minutes, play them on sub-optimal shifts/games, criticizing them in the media etc. until they become team oriented...or whither away. Racing does not seem to have this mechanism/culture.
    I don’t question vettels skills, they are far superior than almost everyone being proposed as his replacement. It is the mental component that is flawed....his arrogance, selfishness, jealousy and judgement.

    For all his faults, I like vettel. I just wish he approached the sport as an elder statesmen trying to cement a legacy, not a desperate has been. His determination is admirable. His tactics are not.


    In fairness, it doesn’t get mentioned enough, I don’t see Binotto falling on his sword as he should as well. His year can only be seen as a complete disaster. If anyone saw any sign of improvement, turn-around etc since he took over, please enlighten me. He looked like a new substitute teacher in a high school classroom in the roughest part of town. No control, no progress. I don’t want to waste any new drivers on this fool. The damage done to leclercs morale may already be irreversible.
     
  4. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Vettel visits the scenery too often, so his skills are now questionable.
    He has been spinning for no apparent reason plenty of times. Again this year at Montreal and Monza.
    A rookie or a driver of lesser talent would be criticised for it, but you don't expect that from a 4-time WDC.
     
  5. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    I’m not sure that’s necessarily a skill issue, to me that’s usually a judgement issue... being overly aggressive, for example. To me, skill issues are most apparent in qualifying, judgement issues are more often race related. But it’s just semantics.
     
  6. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Whatever the reason, Vettel has commited too many beginners mistakes in recent years.
    Every time it cost places, points, wins, and damages the chance of winning the title.
    You don't expect the Ferrari Number One driver to do that.

    Vettel isn't even sheepish about it, saying recently in an interview that this year wasn't so bad !
    Ferrari pays Vettel 35M€ (12 times more than Leclerc !!!) and he is happy finishing 5th in the WDC !!!
    What's wrong with him ?
     
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  7. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    His anger management is lacking. His wheel to wheel skills are far below others. Well known to all - fans and press. His ONLY prestige is 4 titles. From the front. He lacks race craft. Severly over rated he is.
     
  8. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    Ya, I think probably it’s because he thinks if it weren’t for Ferrari, he would have finished higher. Again, he’s not someone who believes in his own personal accountability. A perfect car, a perfect partner who existed solely to ensure he finishes highest, etc are the prime reasons in his mind why he was not in the top 3. ;)
     
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  9. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Many have said that Vettel's racecraft wasn't up to scratch.
     
  10. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    #585 I'm 360 Canuck, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    It’s funny, I was reading about a time when Max called Vettel “crazy”. That pretty much says it all :)

    But this is surely vettels last big payday...and his last chance on a competitive team, I think he would be foolish/crazy to end that of his own accord. I know I would milk it for every last drop...and then at the end of the contract, potentially disappear....but I don’t know if he has the humility to even do that.
     
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  11. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    It's becoming pathetic now. Can't anyone at Ferrari see this?
    The situation is dragging the team down.
    They will probably waste another year.
     
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  12. I'm 360 Canuck

    I'm 360 Canuck Formula 3

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    I think Binotto is in over his head. I know it’s just 1 year, but as I said before, he hasn’t given any indication of competence in any regard, whether it’s the car, strategy, or the personnel. I find that worrisome.
     
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  13. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    Some well placed former F1 personnel have stated Binotto needs to return to his strength of F1 technical expertise
     
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  14. Targaflorio0199

    Targaflorio0199 Karting

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    I think we all agree here no one really gives a flying proverbial about our opinions.

    My ten cents, the issue isn't just Seb Vettel's perceived "arrogance" or "selfishness".

    It's his clear and real slide in ability, the errors, the poor decisions. He's on the way out and everybody knows it.

    At the end of the day the standings don't lie.

    LeClerc - 2 Wins, 10 Podiums

    Vettel - 1 win, 9 podiums.

    And Leclerc on a fraction of Vettel's wage.

    Really don't want to see a repeat of this season with all the team infighting on track.

    If Vettel doesn't have the wisdom to get out, Ferrari needs to make the difficult decision and make it for him.
     
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  15. Surfah

    Surfah F1 Rookie

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    Vettel's demise has been progressive over 3 years. Do we really need to suffer a 4th?

    Chokes under pressure with a fragile psyche, piss poor decision making, serious lack of wheel to wheel racecraft and a petty, petulant personality.

    He's departure couldnt come any sooner for the sake of Ferrari f1.
     
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  16. Korr

    Korr F1 World Champ
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    Binotto doesn't have the balls to make important decisions. We have at least another year with sv.
     
  17. LVP488

    LVP488 F1 Rookie

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    I will be amused if Vettel proves good in 2020 to shut up all the critics...
    However since the car and team are likely to still be crap we'll probably never know what he's able - or not - to do :(
     
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  18. Kiwi Nick

    Kiwi Nick Formula 3

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    I am having a difficult time imagining Wayne Gretsky or Gordie Howe being benched until their attitude changed. And if you don't think that Gordie, who I think was better than Gretsky, was a pain in the butt, you don't know hockey.
     
  19. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    Is this comparison with hockey really necessary ? This is F1 forum.
     
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  20. DF1

    DF1 F1 World Champ
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    7 poles to 2 for Charles over Vettel. Held back by the team and at least 2 other wins were his. Bahrain and potentially Singapore. The stats are worse than they appear for Charles vs Vettel. Add the absurd mistakes and Charles easily out drove Vettel in the larger scheme. Why the team plan to endure this potential again along with the financial cost is ridiculous. Shareholders and fans deserve better management of this situation.
     
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  21. Targaflorio0199

    Targaflorio0199 Karting

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    PS. What happened to "I'm 360 Canuck" ??. Debating this topic - and then - Banned?
     
  22. william

    william F1 World Champ

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    See post #180, page 8, on the "Lewis and Ferrari talks" .
     
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  23. johnireland

    johnireland F1 Rookie
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    Whether or not Vettel stays is not the key to Ferrari success in 2020. If I were Ferrari, I'd be worried that Leclerc will leave unless Ferrari shows it can build the best car and put forward the winning team with winning team leadership. If they can't do that, then they might as well replace Vettel with Kubica.
     
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  24. petrol_junkie

    petrol_junkie Rookie

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    Gary Anderson was the person who said that.
     
  25. lorenzobandini

    lorenzobandini F1 Rookie
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    Huh??? :rolleyes:
     

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