whistling at high RPM? | FerrariChat

whistling at high RPM?

Discussion in '308/328' started by JoeZaff, Jun 9, 2010.

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  1. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    My Mondial 3.2 cab is really screwing with me lately. First, it has a cold start problem for all of two days, which has now completely disappeared (after, of course, I left the car at my mechanics for a week and he couldn't duplicate the problem). So on my way home from the mechanic, I stretch my cars legs a little bit and notice that I have suddenly developed this barely perceptible high pitched whine, almost like a whistle, above 4.5K. It is not transmission related because it happens if I rev the car in neutral as well as at speed.

    I just did the belts and bearing a few months ago and we replaced any hoses that APPEARED to be old. The only hose that we didn't get to, which I was planning on next week, was the hose connecting to the ECG valve which is sweating a bit of oil.

    The water pump looks good, works well, and is only about 4 years old w/5K miles on her. The A/C was not on when I experienced the issue.

    Does this sound bearing or vacuum related?

    Any thoughts before I drive my A$$ back to my mechanic!
     
  2. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    I had an air filter cause a whistling noise. Thats how I discovered that a 308 and 328 were not interchangeable.
     
  3. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Hmmm,
    That's interesting, but the filter has been in there for at least a few months and I replaced the hose a little less than a year ago. Are you thinking maybe the airbox isn't sealing properly?
     
  4. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    It's probably worh looking at. In my case the filter developed a tear in the rubber part of the element and it drove me nuts until I figured it out.
    Did you rule out the exhaust tips?
     
  5. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    sort of, the exhaust tips have always made a distinct whistle between 3-4K. This sound is not too dissimilar from that. I am going to have to get a buddy to stick his head back there while I rev her up and see what he finds.

    Thanks so much for the suggestions!
     
  6. FamilyCar

    FamilyCar Formula Junior
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    #6 FamilyCar, Jun 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Can you determine if it is vacuum related rather than engine speed related? That should be possible by varying the load on the engine without changing engine speed very much.

    My car would make an intermittent high-pitched whistle sometimes. I finally discovered that the molded hose, Part 42 on the image below, was split.

    I also have a vacuum leak on the small valve on the rear firewall-below the expansion tank, although it is only apparent when decelerating. Perhaps a loose hose there?

    I've also had noise form the water-pump idler bearing recently, but that was most noticeable at lower engine speeds.

    Let us know the results, and good luck.

    Peter
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  7. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
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    Exhaust whistle?
     
  8. ClydeM

    ClydeM F1 World Champ
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    If it is an exhaust whistle, it'll get more pronounced.
    If you search the archives, there's lots of posts on this.
    An easy test - get some springy metal, roll it up, slide them into the exhause tips (I'd do two at a time) and if the whistle goes away, time to either replace the muffler or make permanent inserts from quality steel. I believe you can also buy them- an old post lists a supplier. For a quick 5 min test, I cut some tin cans & tried it. Found out it was the passenger side tips causing the problem.
     
  9. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Thanks!
    I'll check this today after I get home from work and report back my findings.
     
  10. B-26

    B-26 Formula Junior

    Jan 9, 2009
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    Cat converter starting to plug up ? just a thought.
     
  11. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Update:

    Went out today and the cold start problem reoccured. Basically, what happens is the car starts fine, but 3 seconds later it begins fascilatting between the valve going on and off causing the idle to stumble and almost stall. After about 15 seconds everything settles down into a low idle (roughly 800RPM). Once the car warms up, the idle smooths out and it settles into a nice 1000 rpm idle.

    I have noticed the ECG valve is sweating a bit of oil.

    As for the sound, standing outside and revving the car with my foot, the sound seems to be coming from the driver's side, maybe behind the oil cooler. It is a higher pitched whistle, like air swooshing. It does not sound very mechanical. I've heard this sound in the past, but much less noticable and assumed it was just the exhaust whistle.

    I am beginning to wonder if all of these things are related. My mechanic is pretty backed up, but I am going to try and get the car to him next week.

    Any further thoughts
     
  12. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    I've had a noise from my oil cooler, but it was caused by vibration and did not sound at all like a whistle. It was enough to send me to the mechanic for repair. It turned out that the bottom mounting bracket had broken.
     
  13. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    Joe,
    This will be completely useless. It is from my348.com and is probably only applicable to the t, but we once had this problem (it went away on its own). If you can understand this quote then you are way ahead of me. . .

    "Air Intake Whine / Noise / Squeal / Whistle / High Pitch The 348 does something unique from 3500 to 5500 rpms; we've got Intake Compensation Solenoid Valves. The ICSV is activated between 3,500 and 5,500 RPM's. This improves torque by opening our Compensation Throttles (helmholtz resonators). And it can be a mysterious, hard-to-diagnose source of noise if the ICSV is bad, or if the ICSV tubing is too old to seal air, or if the vacuum tubing involved has a leak."

    Good Luck,
    Dave
     
  14. davebdave

    davebdave Formula 3
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    Joe, I took our Mondi over to generous FChatter Gianluca's garage today to change the oil. We put it on his lift, drained the oil and refilled it. I got the crazy idea to remove all the Engine Management connectors and apply Stabilant 22A. Now I have a check bank 5-8 light. I did the unthinkable. I fixed what wasn't broken. Why do we love these quirky Italian cars so much?

    Dave
     
  15. FamilyCar

    FamilyCar Formula Junior
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    Joe:

    Here's a thought--vacuum leak to the ECU?

    It's on the driver's side about where you describe, the small hose probably makes the sound you describe, and it would affect the timing which would be more noticeable on a cold engine. It's a single small hose, I think the forward one on the intake manifold plenum, and sort of loops ahead of the cols down to the ECU, which is just below the oil cooler.

    Perhaps worth a look or a hose jiggle.

    Peter
     
  16. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Peter,
    I will definitely check this out, the engine is running a tad rough when cold and I have noticed a tiny bit more of the "overrun" sound than normal even when hot.

    I'm bringing her back to the shop next week, but it would great to find the culprit and salvage the weekend!
     
  17. FamilyCar

    FamilyCar Formula Junior
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    Joe: No guarantees, but worth a look. A correction, it is the rear-most of the hoses on the manifold. Mine was badly cracked where it expands over the bulge on the end of the nipple, but not leaking. The connection to the ECU can be accessed by removing the wheel well liner, unless you have a lift which would make it pretty simple.

    Hope you get your weekend back.

    Peter
     
  18. dm_n_stuff

    dm_n_stuff Four Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Twenty of us spent significant time with Joe and his Mondail this morning.

    The official diagnosis.

    OCD.

    No not some odd valve or exhaust leak, not a vacuum leak or bearing going bad.

    OCD.

    Joe has it, has it bad, and most of the time he appears to focus it on his car.

    We recommended a more modern Ferrari was his only possible solution. I let him drive my 360 in order to test one out. Hey may be hooked.

    DM
     
  19. JV's89

    JV's89 F1 Veteran
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    I let him drive my 360 in order to test one out. Hey may be hooked.

    DM[/QUOTE]

    In some circles that may be considered a dirty trick. :)
     
  20. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    #20 JoeZaff, Jun 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    That pretty much sums it up. I listened to a Ferrari 328 that made a similar sound and then called a buddy of mine with a Mondial 3.2 cab who stated his car makes the exact same sound. It is normal...and I am an obsessive a$$.


    Dave's 360 was amazing as one would expect, but a distinctly different driving experience, as have all the newer Ferraris I have driven (post 355). Personally, I really love the feel of the old Ferraris. They are more my style. Besides, I wouldn't trade my Mondial for any other car in the world. Having had the good fortune of driving or being driven in all sorts of wonderful Ferraris, I have a renewed appreciation of all the things that drew me to my car in the first place. I am obsessed with it because in my eyes she is irreplaceable and I couldn't live with myself if she suffered some kind of calamity on my watch. I'll admit that I occasionally curse her and threaten to sell her, but that temptuous relationship is part of the passion of owning a fiery italian. I LOVE all Ferraris, but I have never driven one I enjoy as much or speaks to my personal needs better.

    VIVA MONDIAL.


    Thanks for all of your help guys and for putting up with my craziness.

    Here's a photo of some of the great fellow f-chatters who helped cure my latest OCD episode at Saturday's C&C. Photo taken by Alex Lee.
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  21. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
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    +1 esp. to the VIVA MONDIAL! :)
     
  22. PV Dirk

    PV Dirk F1 Veteran

    Jul 26, 2009
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    Joe, you are not alone. I'm always hearing "new" sounds in my Mondial. My listening has become much more focused since I did my service. Before the service I enjoyed the sound of the engine and didn't worry if something was normal or not because the service would get it. Now it should be right and I did the work myself so I'm double concerned about every little sound.
     
  23. TheRealFlyingBear

    Apr 27, 2020
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    I also have OCD when it comes to my Ferrari, you're not alone Joe! It's my mission to eliminate squeaks, rattles, whistles, until the car is perfect =)
     
  24. gcalex

    gcalex Formula Junior
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    "OCD" is one of the reasons it is good to drive the car regularly.

    When I was driving my QV regularly, I was very tuned-in to what was "normal" and what was "not".

    For a variety of reasons, the car sat for an extended period of time, and when I finally started driving it again, I found I was "chasing ghosts" for a long time before I got tuned back into the car.

    This is also a reason why I really think it is a fraught thing to have anyone work on these cars that does not do work on lots of them; unless you regularly get wheel time on the specific model, I think it is very easy to start "fixing" things that are actually just fine...
     
  25. ginoBBi512

    ginoBBi512 F1 Rookie
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    Get rid of the factory muffler, and install a Tubi !! I also run a K & N air filter. I think someone, maybe Fab Speed , make sport cats, or you can use a test pipe. You will love the sound, and the engine will run cooler with a test pipe, and or sport cats. These cars really wake up when you go this route. Just my 2 cents.

    Thank you
     

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