Which drivers do you think are OVER-rated?

The *ss talker was Mark study not so much.

 

How long have you watched F1?

Must have been about 2 minutes to make this unbelievaly naive comment. MS went and raced the CRAPPY Ferraris (yes crap is the right word when talking about the Ferraris he started racing) to prove that he is the best.

He is the only driver that was prepared to take this risk ... other than Prost, who nearly made Ferrari win again. Senna was too chicken, Mansell was too tight .

When MS went to Ferrari, Williams and McLarens were winning as they pleased ... Ferrari were lucky if they ever saw a podium.

Funny how people forget ... yes Ferraris are good cars now, but back before 2000 they were a piece of ****. Infact their last decent car was in 1984!!!!!

Pete

 

How is JPM very overrated? Not meant to be antagonistic, I just want to know the reasoning.

 

If you focus only on the last couple of years, then you may miss a character flaw and/or strength. You can learn if he struggles on certian tracks, in poor weather or in hot climates. If there was tension between the driver and crew, or managers. I wouldn't just focus on the results from the season. I have seen what I thought were great salesmen, walk away because they had self confidence problems or were just unsure of their full potential. If you don't look at every aspect of his racing history, then you don't have all of the information and your decision will have a greater chance of being wrong.
And wrong is never good.

 

Very well. When I'm making my fantasy pics I'm not looking at 5 year old data. Are you?

 

My opinion. I have yet to see JPM do anything special on the race track. I'm am not sure how many races he has won (I think only one, Monza which was handed too him on a plate).

He has been beaten many, many times by his team mate that we all do not rate very highly.

Just does not appear to be the full package to me. Drives way too emotionally and thus is unlike to finish a race or to pull off a decent pass (more likely to crash into the other car ... as he has demonstrated many times).

JPM came into F1 with huge fan fair as we desperately needed someone to race against MS ... he has not been able to, and yet RS has occasionally.

If times were different, JPM's arrival at F1 would have been a lot quieter and he would have looked like da Matta does now ... instead (and I do feel a little sorry for JPM) he was overly publised as the next WC, and thus he has this huge expectation he has not been able to deliver on.

Pete

 

If I was scouting for F1, I sure as hell would be!

 

If you do not look at the begining of MS's career then you have missed why everyone rates him so highly.

His recent career did not make him the racing God that he is now, it was thoses years when he fought the bad handling Ferraris and made them win against all odds.

His first 2 championships were impressive too, in a lowly Benetton.

It is IMO naive to rate MS just over the last couple of years ... BUT as always you have to rate any F1 driver against his team mate. MS continually destroys RB ... enough reason to continue to rate MS IMO.

Pete
PS:

How do you rate Senna and Prost then?

When they won their championships they both were driving for the dominate teams ... surely then if you use the same thinking as you have for MS, then Senna and Prost were just lucky also rans that were only average drivers ??????

Also they did not even build those teams into that position, they just turned up and drove for them ...

 

You didn't answer the question...

 

Are you talking to me? I think MS is extremely good...

 

I'm a driver, I don't do fantasy.

 

Ok.

 

Yes, because of this quote:

MS has not had to demonstrate his skill for the last 3 years ... thus you have to look back to when he did not have the best car.

Again the only valid way to judge a driver IMO is against his team mate, and I find it very amusing that every time RB Mother thinks her son is getting close to MS ... MS goes out and makes him look totally pathetic . I have only ever seen one race where RB out drove MS all weekend ... and unfortunately he was not allowed to win that one.

Pete

 

Yes, he was kind enough to move over, but got that "W" back at Indy, so It's all good.

 

MS's performance for the past 3 years is not an accurate guage of how he will do this year? I don't know, his driving was so absolutely crushingly good(overall) I think it would be safe to say he has the skills to do well in another car. Here is a question, do you think MS, JPM, FA could have achieved the time Mark Webber did in qualifying in the Jaguar(in the last race)?

 

Hmmm, tough question. I suppose I have to answer 'probably'. But motor racing is more than a one lap wonder and JPM needs to learn that, as does Weber after that race .

Look at Trulli, he has qualified very well occasionally but we all rank him as average to useless ...

I would like to JPM close his mouth, build that car, qualify and race well and when he attempts to pass ... actually miss the car infront

Pete

 

1:33.715 for Webber was a great time to qualify.
But where did he finish? And can he keep the speed up all season?

 

Well put.

 

Who will be the No. 1 driver for the team next season?

 

I agree that McLaren might be shooting itself in the foot with two top drivers. But then again they have always done that in the Senna/Prost/Lauda years.

Rubens is overrated but we like him around here because he is such a nice team player.

The Benetton wasn't bad, but it was really Schumi who made it click.

Senna wasn't overrated and I for one do remember that GP: The race marshalls wanted a Frenchman (Prost) to win so badly, that they stopped the race and declared him the winner before the underdog Senna in his crappy Toleman had a chance to catch the frog.

The immediate stop of the race brought a chaos over the town: Most people stay outside of Monaco, most in Nice, so special trains are commuting on race day back and forth. Well, those trains weren't in the (tiny) station yet. So all of us fans marched towards the station, which was closed and gated down. Unfortunately I was at the very front and almost got killed by the pressure of the fans pushing me hard against the gates. A very scary moment. Eventually the trains arrived and we all left.

It was in that after math rain chaos, that everybody mingled with everybody. I remember walking by a stranded F1 car. No marshalls. Could have easily stolen the steering wheel. Why didn't I?!?

Also almost bumped into Lauda walking by me. It was a wild time and a wild end to an amazing race. Senna didn't win that day, but EVERYBODY saw what that man was capable of that day. That got him into the Lotus in 85.

 

The only team who definitely do not designate a number 1 driver is Williams, and this has cost them many WC's. McLaren say one thing to us and another inside the team. Coulthard has always been number 2 and as long as he stays at McLaren will continue to be so.

Why do I think this?

Remember back to the Senna days at McLaren ... a very definite number 1 then. This is what caused all the problems with Prost, because he was the established number 1 and then along came Senna.

Note: all you Prost knockers remember it was Prost that accepted the new young and upcoming star to race in the same team. Senna NEVER accepted anybody that was any good at all to race in the same team. That puts Prost a notch above in my book.

Frank Williams is a fool in how he lets racing decide his teams fate. The years when Mansell and Piquet fought each other were just stupid ... as the WC ended up going to McLaren! It is idealic rubbish IMO.

This team order stuff happened from the start of the very first race back in the very late 1800's and has been part of motor racing ever since. Even in club racing you form aliances ...

Pete