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Which Car Has the Best Long Term Potential?

Discussion in 'Ferrari Discussion (not model specific)' started by Shark01, Sep 21, 2019.

  1. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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  2. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie
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    No, Scuderia is more fun than a Speciale.

    If we’re talking ‘good’, then a Tesla P100 whatever is more ‘good’ than either..

    But I agree with your other points. And Boxer v Scud is an interesting unsolvable dilemma, like choosing between black cod and wagyu beef, or snowboarding and skiing, or an old Lafite and a young Kistler - different types
     
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  3. vrsurgeon

    vrsurgeon F1 World Champ
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    Each car has it's own *charm*. I suspect that long term the Speciale is going to be a better investment. I've said it a million times, why would I spend $300k for a Scud when I can buy a Speciale for the same price? DCT or F1.. why put up with the F1 tranny when you don't have to? Not as squirrely a chassis at the limit with the Speciale.
     
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  4. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3
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    Nick Mason purchased the GTO for 37kBPS in the day. Told he was crazy to spend that amount for an old car!
     
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  5. Thecadster

    Thecadster Formula 3
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    This reminds of crazy scenario that happened to me last month. I was driving my Performante with a group of Lamborghini owners to attend the IMSA race at VIR. There was over 20 of us total. We were driving in somewhat “spirited” fashion. We come up rather quickly on an “in the wrapper” white Pontiac Firebird pace car livery (not sure what vintage, but I would guess early 80’s). When I say in the wrapper, I mean it was perfect. Now picture in your mind what kind of driver you would be expecting to see when you pulled along side. Now hold that image. So imagine my surprise when I looked over and saw a gorgeous 19-21 year old blond girl wearing the single biggest smile I have ever seen. She was actually more excited to see the row of Lamborghini’s driving by than we were to see her. I will never forget that smile, and once more I’m reminded that you cannot ever judge a driver by the car they drive....
     
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  6. henryr

    henryr F1 World Champ
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    u need to drive them to decide

    there are plenty of cars that i love the looks of but are less than behind the wheel
     
  7. kes7u

    kes7u Formula Junior

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    GREAT story! I love seeing people as thrilled to be driving their car as I am mine, regardless of make/model!

    Kevin
     
  8. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 Veteran
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    I have said this before. The 512 BB is the last analog Ferrari.

    Cars are not for investing, especially mass produced models. If you catch a wave up, good for you, but expect nothing.
     
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  9. XSpeed

    XSpeed Karting

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    both options suck.

    putting your money in ETFs would be even a better alternative in a recessing economy, compared to what you are trying to accomplish.
     
  10. Sfumato

    Sfumato F1 Veteran
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    Scud nowhere near a Spec. Bought Spec new. Drove Scuds. Spec last NA v8. Epic despite 3k rpm drone at 70mph, stay above or below 3k. Handling crushes 360-430s.
    550 last real analog Ferrari. Had Superamerica so can speak to that too. It didn’t run for a damn. Ferrari bought it back. Put 5000mi on it, my Daytona ran better cold. Should put Webers on it.
     
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  11. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Sounds like a Daytona Pace car V6 Turbo Firebird...not sure if there was one at Indy 500, would be about a '84, oddly enough I saw one similar (base Trans Am GTA) Sunday!

    While not considered a high water mark for TAs, they would still be a great ride for that age driver, I think a young male was in the one I saw....
    Flashback..my last one was a '94....
     
  12. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior
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    Buying any modern mass market Ferrari on speculation that "someday" it could have some collector value is a fools venture, maybe even in the case of some of the more limited production models. Just the cost of properly maintaining such a car over the decades required will erase any realistic monetary gain for most, and god forbid you put miles on it by driving it. How about the cost of a temperature and humidity controlled place to keep it? If you are even asking the questions, you are not in the place to become a long term investment car collector. If you happen to have a huge environmentally controlled garage, piles of cash, and plenty of other cars to drive, well dive right in and start the collection of your dreams. If like the rest of us you just want to enjoy a car and have some sort of hope it holds value, buy one you like at the bottom of the depreciation curve and prepare to take care of it for a few decades or more.
     
  13. Marcoboxer

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    Sound advice....buying at the bottom of the depreciation curve, hard to do in reality.

    Back to the OP question: given the broad knowledge of these cars here, which of those two cars are closest to the bottom of the curve?
     
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  14. Dean Palmer

    Dean Palmer Formula Junior
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    Car#1 - 2003 F360 with 770 miles
    Car #2 - 1992 348 Speciale

    That specific 348 Speciale would be a nice car and pretty much at the bottom of the curve. It's a Speciale too which means it has at least some future potential. If it were a different color I might consider it for a placeholder in the garage for sure over the overpriced and underdriven 360. I already had one of those :)
     
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  15. obbob

    obbob Formula Junior

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    #2. The ultra rare, classic and old car will generally appreciate more.

    Once the car gets to a certain level of classic status, rarity, or age, mileage tends to not matter as much anymore unless it's a "literally never driven except around the showroom" type of mileage.

    Buyer's of these cars will then care about genuine condition, not some number on the dashboard. Modern car buyers tend to do the opposite for some reason.
     
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  16. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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  17. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Rookie

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    One of the few who actually understood the point....bravo.

    I personally think the 360 with 770 miles has no collector value, while the 348 Speciale has limited or no demand despite the rarity. And the slow market for these are re- enforcing the point.
     
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  18. Marcoboxer

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    That 348 Speciale is tempting....and yes, it does reinforce the point. And points to the issue of trying to predict the bottom of any depreciation curve....it's fueled by demand and may have several dips and no guarantee that it will ever actually be an upward curve.

    Anyone up for a debate about which of the broader categories have hit bottom of the curve? A gated 360 just sold for $85k on BaT. Where's the F430 headed? Moderator, feel free to move me to another thread if this diversion off-topic is inappropriate .
     
  19. BOKE

    BOKE Beaks' Gun Rabbi
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    All of these cars need to be evaluated individually. The lowest price a particular model sells for on BaT or eBay is irrelevant unless you have a "Cheapest Ferrari" YouTube channel.

    If you think the 348 mentioned by the OP will appreciate much, you are mistaken. 1992 Ferrari 348 Series Speciale - $59,900 It may be 1 of 100, but it has a bunch of miles and apparent needs, IMHO.

    Take two 348s that are recently listed by owners in the classifieds. These two cars represent the actual range of what is out there in 348s, leaving out the museum cars and the salvage titles.

    For Sale 1990 348ts -$39K Runs Great! Sold to Tyler Hoover of Hoovie's garage. Famous for buying the cheapest cars available.

    For Sale For sale ONE owner 1954 mile 1992 348tb Unraped prom queen available to a discerning collector.

    Determining when prices are bottoming and predicting which modern Ferraris will appreciate over time are two different issues that have little or nothing to do with each other.

    Ferraris bought on the cheap are among the worst investments imaginable. YMMV.

     
  20. VAF84

    VAF84 Karting
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    Excellent point obbob. I was just thinking about this as I was reading the forum. When I was looking for Alfa Romeo GTV's, mileage was the last thing on my mind. I imagine you're looking to make sure that it is as close to original as possible, the body is straight, reasonably good condition, it runs well, and no rust. Yes, it is nice to see a low mileage example, but it drops down in level of importance because your choices are limited. IMO ,mileage is more important in the "new-used" market, but less so in the classic car market.
     
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  21. Marcoboxer

    Marcoboxer Rookie

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    Totally agree. There is certainly a window in a cars aging journey where higher mileage is equated with increased maintenance and/or greater depreciation. For example, if I was in the market for a Daytona....not sure I'd give a crap about the mileage. Plus they all hit a point where the work needed, due to age, becomes more important than work needed due to the distance a car has travelled/idled, and some amount of usage just plain helps keep the thing happy. Vehicles (in general) IMHO don't tend to be great investment strategies.....although that has never stopped me using that argument with the VP of Domestic Affairs every time I wanted to make another dumb financial decision :) . Buy them because you want to play with them, back to the OP point, try to not lose too much money doing it and if possible don't buy something that clearly has depreciation downside. If you've got options, pick the one you want first and then try to buy with limited downside.
     
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  22. IloveGT

    IloveGT Formula Junior

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  23. FourFiveGreat

    FourFiveGreat Rookie

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    #2. Super-limited and old means there's a chance. Mass-produced car = no chance.

    Looking at other markets for collectibles, given strong parent brand equity, the older and rarer it is, the less important the actual merits of the thing are. Eventually, some people will want it simply to complete their collections.

    Unloved today means you can buy in. Be prepared to wait 5-15 years for anything good to happen.
     
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  24. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
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    The 348 could increase, trouble is it was down graded by the CEO of the company itself. Could that eventually add somthing to the value? Possibly. The NSX killed the 348, same with a few north American cars/trucks ie..syclone and typhoon.

    I love the 348, but the performance of the car was indeed lacking in comparison to what was available at the time for less then 1/2 the price. To bad, because it could have been much more.
     
  25. LightGuy

    LightGuy Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Just revisiting this thread.
    Collectabilty depends on demand obviously.
    One could say an F40 should not be collectable to the numbers it brings because of the numbers.
    Demand says otherwise.
    Is a F1 360 in high demand ?
    Is a special edition of an underappreciated car in high demand ?
    What is in demand, right now and perhaps more in the future, is manual shift naturally aspirated mid engined Ferraris . "The best / last" will always pull more interest.
    Although I am infatuated currently with the CS , Scud and 16M .....a manual shift 430 is a long term home run. Manual 360 a tripple.
     
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