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Where is it going competition

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by alastairhouston, Jun 25, 2014.

  1. Nathan76

    Nathan76 Formula Junior

    Jun 20, 2013
    344
    Leicestershire, UK
    Always a problem when by lying unseen vehicles. Unfortunately the risk always lies with the buyer and sometimes 1 persons concours is not the others and so on...
     
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  3. Nathan76

    Nathan76 Formula Junior

    Jun 20, 2013
    344
    Leicestershire, UK
    Buying not lying damn autocorrect
     
  4. bundas

    bundas F1 Veteran
    Owner

    Dec 31, 2005
    6,885
    lexington ky usa
    Full Name:
    mitchell barnes
    I have been quite about your car Wayne. Figured that you would deal with it after calming down. I am in Austin for the F1. The turbo 400 is here. I got lucky. It sold to Brazil before I got here. Saved again!😊. Both the red and blue 400's are still in the shop. The red car RH front brake locked. Just stopped two inches short of another car😳 a fix that paid for that never happened. Blue car in for A/C and Spedo.
     
  5. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,046
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    Oh here we go. Another buyer realizes his 35 year old Ferrari isn't Concours level.
     
  6. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    Come on Wayne, it can't be in Mitchell's league!
     
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  8. wrxmike

    wrxmike Moderator
    Moderator Silver Subscribed Owner

    Mar 20, 2004
    5,940
    AU
    Full Name:
    Michael
    That's not what he said, nor was it the tone of his post. I can understand his dissapointment at buying a car that had always been represented as being very good.

    M
     
  9. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    I agree and I'm sure Tassie has a lot of experience with older Ferraris. I must admit I'm quite surprised that the car turned out to be less than tip-top.
     
  10. DaveO_48

    DaveO_48 Karting

    Jul 29, 2013
    184
    Henderson, Nv
    Full Name:
    David Odland
    The consensus appeared to be that this 400GT was in much better condition than it actually is. I'm curious, was this a case of member back scratching or didn't anyone ever actually see the car while in the previous ownership?
    The first part of the question is more about complicity while the second part brings into question what level of critique was used when it was viewed.
    At least one person knows the answer to both, maybe more.
    At any case it should be an excellent example when done.
     
  11. NickKerigan

    NickKerigan Karting

    Mar 17, 2011
    165
    Oxford, UK
    Full Name:
    Nick Kerigan
    Wayne, on a personal level, sorry to hear your story.
    I never saw the car in the flesh but everything I heard suggested it was in good condition.
    A real shame it is not.
    But it does sound like the car is in the best place - QV is an excellent shop.
    If you want someone (non technical) to go down and eyeball what Mike and team are up to then happy to do so, just PM me.
     
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  13. Tassie

    Tassie Formula Junior

    Dec 17, 2009
    342
    Tasmania, Australia
    Full Name:
    Wayne Clark
    To all,
    Having spent some time with Mitchell (a very genuine guy by the way) I don't think my car had the issues he has endured but there are similarities in dealings. Enough said.
    I do not suspect that any other Fchat member, or any other person, was complicit in any deception. Never did.

    As I said previously this was all my own work, eyes wide shut. No one to blame but me.

    The lesson I wish others to benefit from is that there is no substitute for a PPI as many others here have said before. Even if the vehicle is well known (or thought to be well known and also in this case in a difficult to get to place) it is better to be checked out by someone you have confidence in. This also means that no member here should be affronted if another wishes for a PPI to be done on their vehicle. Sadly not everyone is completely honest but also there can be issues that have not been recognized by the most honest person.

    Now lets return to positive thinking and enjoying what we have. Life is too short.
     
  14. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    Tassie, I feel your pain. While an planned restoration largely (but not totally) negates the need for a PPI, knowing what you have underneath is important, so I hope that your basis is good for your restoration to the car's former glory.
    Sometimes, even those we trust need a PPI.

    Looking forward to seeing another of the series given a new, better lease on life, restoring its dignity. It's an interesting, and rewarding journey.
     
  15. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Sounds like sour grapes to me Tassie
    I am absolutely appalled at your behaviour, everybody knows that a perfect car costs a whole lot of money more than the measly 20 grand you paid it is only ever a starting point you of all people should know that.
    Now your lowering yourself to new levels by attempting to prove that I am some nasty con man pulling the wool and doing you. Well you will have chosen the wrong guy if you go down that road. I paid 10k to a great friend called Phil Stafford I spent a further 25 to 30k on it and hundreds of hours of work and I can also say hundreds of fantastic hours driving it yep the paint job is not so good big deal did I not say that in the info? did I not send you every picture of all of the work I have done on the car does it not show you that at 20k you have a bargain?
    You have sadly ruined what was a wonderful story for me, I will forget about you and remember the good guys heres to you Phil.
     
  16. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Hello Kurt
    unfortunately Tassie wasn't looking for a restoration he was expecting a perfect car! for 20K which in my opinion is dillusional. Its just not realistic.
    Alastair
     
  17. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Hello Nick
    Tassie made a big error of judgement here which I am surprized at he expected a perfect car!!! it just is silly. I can tell you it wasn't perfect no problem I gave a list of things that could be attended to going forward in my info sent to Wayne I was of the understanding that he knew these cars only ever become perfect after large amounts of money and time.
    20k and now he owns a very rare 400GT that I drove every day and all over Europe and rebuilt the engine etc etc plus 25 to 30k spent it really is completely unreasonable of him to get bitter over it and especially unkind to me not very nice.
     
  18. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Why on earth would you expect to buy a tip top Ferrari 400GT for 20K? that is unrealistic in my view. Ferrari charge over 200k for a tip top car and they have done it several times that's 180k!!!!! of a difference ok even in the real world it costs 80k for a proper job.
    My question is why would you be surprised if it was less than tip top at that money?
     
  19. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Hello Dave
    The consensus is that Tassie thinks he was diddled by me so he has made his gripes on the forum, nobody else has actually seen the car including himself!!!!!!
    I think the car was in every bit as good condition that I advertised it at in fact even better.

    To answer the first part of your question I think your getting a bit too deep with the back scratching thing its like why would I be so bored and desperate to con someone? I have put 25 to 30k in plus the purchase of 10k so a total of 40k in and you are feeling sorry for someone who paid me 20k!!!

    Second part well I don't know about you but rather than upping or lowering my 'level of critique' I actuall just paid exactly what the seller asked over the phone when I bought the car and never complained about it I just got on with the great journey.
     
  20. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Utter nonsense Wayne. Not too bad with the words but unfortunately I can see through your sour grapes, sad really. You have extensive photos and receipts for work carried out I would be delighted if you want to share them, its probably important now to answer your very unkind accusation and prove that you are sadly in this case not just wrong but also a very unkind fellow.
     
  21. It's Ross

    It's Ross Formula 3

    Jul 30, 2007
    2,018
    Barrington, Ill. USA
    Full Name:
    Ross
    My thoughts;
    Price, while typically indicative doesn't trump what is represented by the seller.
    I have purchased great cars at bargain prices and truly awful ones for what one would expect to pay for a prime example.
    A buyer's expectations are understandably predicated on the representation offered by the seller, regardless of price.
    I was not party to the pre-purchase discussion so do not know what was represented only that the "you bought cheap" argument seems weak from here.
     
  22. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,200
    Hi Alistair

    I didn't know (or had forgotten) you sold it for just 20k. I just thought it was in really nice condition and that you had done a whole load of work on it. I would love to have had your car, warts and all.

    Aidan
     
  23. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Did you see what I represented? no. So just because the buyer is grumpy and thinks hes been diddled does that mean I have a weak argument? No.
     
  24. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Thanks Aidan
    Ime really upset about this its so sad and all the work that Phil Stafford did and myself Phil was a great guy and everything I did with the car was in good faith. I burned a big hole in my pocket and many many hours of work, it wasn't perfect far from it I sent Wayne all the photos and details of work carried out, its just so sad Wayne has ruined the story one things for sure I had a lot more fun rebuilding the engine dealing with Phil and travelling around Europe etc that will never be taken away from me.
     
  25. bjwhite

    bjwhite F1 Rookie

    Mar 17, 2006
    4,046
    Seattle, WA
    Full Name:
    Brian White
    That's 20k GBP....which is about $32,000 USD.
     
  26. willrace

    willrace Two Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Oct 21, 2006
    22,365
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    ^ ^ ^ This, whether in-the-metal, or other aspects of making a decision to purchase an object or service.

    Whoa....... Good point, especially for what is now essentially a starting basis for a restoration.
     
  27. alastairhouston

    alastairhouston Formula Junior

    Apr 19, 2009
    575
    Largs Scotland UK
    Full Name:
    Alastair Houston
    Whoa indeed
    How do you think this is 'essentially a starting point for a restoration' when the engine has been extensively rebuilt etc etc etc?
     
  28. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Rossa Subscribed Owner

    Nov 11, 2003
    6,084
    Central NJ
    Wow, this thread took a left turn!
     

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