When is enough, enough>?

I was at this point last year with my TR. Spent 4 months at the shop getting a major and a differential upgrade. 15K total. get it back, won't shift right, 2 more weeks downtime for "adjustment" . Two weeks later speedo quits working, pull and repair, now I get in and make a list of ten cosmetic deficiencies (repaint bumpers, front lid insulation falling, warped dash, front and read hood struts, new floor mats, dye seat, warped dashboard etc, another 5-6 K . Immediately after fixing all of this I placed her for sale. But now when I drive or look at it I am falling back in love with her so she may just stick around BTW my receipts over the last ten years total more than I paid for the car.

 

Oh I would not go that far. Sometimes it takes 50 miles of driving for the leak to make itself known. Some owners would call that "abuse" if a mechanic drives the car more than a few feet. As long as he takes care of the issues, he is good mechanic.

 

The solution is to never add them up.

 

True enough on oil leaks and subsequent fixes and will give you that...

And if an owner will not tolerate proper road testing to ensure that problems are fixed then they must be prepared to drive back and forth to the mechanic on a more frequent basis.

 

When I took my car back to bill Pollard the second time to fix a distributor oil leak (a week after writing McCann a very large check), Bill started muttering about porous castings and called the car a piece of Fiat s#!T. That was a turning point for me. He eventually said it was the camshaft extension o ring (the internal one most people don't know about) but he could not get the pin out so he told me to epoxy it. So I took it to Frank Buannano of Black Horse but he broke his tool trying to get the pin out and gave up. I then took it to Tonkin who ignored my input and replaced the distributor oil seal for the third time. Dropped hood on battery charger in the process, putting a nice dent in it. Finally had to make a special tool to get the pin out. All of this took years and thousands of $ for a five cent o ring. I kept car for another 15 years after that, during which time another o ring failed (on the oil filter) and gushed oil all over my motor and engine bay. Took weeks to get the smell of burning oil out of my nostrils. These were just some of the pleasures of mondial ownership. I could have flipped it the day after the auction and been $3k ahead. So my advice to owners who are lukewarm about their cars is to sell before the next expensive repair. Of course if you love the car you won't resent the upkeep. But when the thrill isn't what it once was, get out now while the market is warm ... and before the next major.

 

This is true. At the very least the wife shouldn't be allowed to add them up. Lucky for me mine doesn't really care.

 

Russ, this is a very fair post and I do not doubt one iota you had bad experiences. But my question is simply this, since the 8 has the same power train as the 308, could it not be argued your woes can be attributed to Ferrari engineering of that epoch and/or the condition of your specific car?

Agreed wholeheartedly that after a certain point parting a car is the prudent path to take. But to bash the model due to your own singular experience with failures of your engine seems unfair to me.

 

I agree with Paul here, Russ. It sounds like you had terrible luck and that truly sucks. You have my sympathy. But nothing I've heard you discuss here is specific to the Mondial. Any 308 car could suffer the same fate, and many have. Maybe you just had a bad one, either a lemon off the line or it was so badly taken care of for so long it would require 3x times the cars value and endless patience to straighten it out.

The one thing I often notice is that by and large, people seem much more willing to put up with the "idiosynchrasies" of 80's Ferrari ownership - the electrical headaches, the leaks, etc -if they own a GTB/GTS or a Testarossa. I hear 246 Dino's regularly shoot oil all over the engine bay, but nobody is saying they're terrible cars. Perhaps its just that the Mondial doesn't satisfy the stereotype of the marquee enough to warrant the headaches for some people, while the "Magnum" Ferrari's do.

As for the OP's concerns, I agree with others that if you keep it, you should drive it every week. At the very least run it every week. If you let it sit for 10 years, you're going to rebuild the entire engine in 10 years.

 

Well said, let's just say thankfully I have not suffered a breakdown in any of our club drives - even Delta Dash.

I can assure you the same cannot be said of a myriad of other models that participated. Some quite modern like the 360/430

 

Sounds like your problems were more with the mechanics, than the car. Any mechanic that calls your car a POS in front of you does not deserve to be paid. My experience with mechanics is about the same. Which is why I've done my own work since about 1976.

The exploding filter was UFI's fault, not Ferrari's. Fram filters also had problems. The simple solution is to use the quality Baldwin oil filters.

Some of the little problems with the car have been solved by rather ingenious aftermarket suppliers. You can usually find them right here on ferrarichat.

E.g.

Coolant petcock:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/530264-308-328-coolant-flush-essential-upgrades.html

Alternator Tightening:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/308-328-sponsored-yellow-compass-group/365828-tightening-alternator-belt-made-easier.html

Expansion Tank Cap:

http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/142059904-post26.html

Air Bleed Valve:

Birdman's Ferrari Parts: EZBleed


I use all of these products myself, and they are great upgrades.

 

The o ring saga was just one chapter and while nothing about it is Mondial-specific I "enjoyed" most of the common 308 and Mondial problems during my ownership (except sunroof mine worked fine and starter motor ditto) and taken together all of the headaches and bills overwhelmed the modest pleasures of ownership. So again, as others have stated you really have to like the car to keep it. Even if your car has been light on the wallet there is a real risk of a spendy hospitalization at any time and of course the certainty of majors. Modest performance, homely looks, and high upkeep are not a formula for a long and happy marriage.

If you like the looks, need 4 seats and have a modest need for speed you will reach a different conclusion.

Btw I think the 246 is the sexiest car of all time and I almost bought one until I drove it and found it lacking. Of course now I regret that but only because of the money. In my books a car that looks fast but does not have the performance to match is a pretender.

 

So a 246 is a sheep in wolf clothing. How would you describe a homely looking car with 400hp on tap? A wolf in sheep clothing and a pretender?

As far as pretender is concerned, I would love a 246 just for its looks.

 

I think Russ might be hard to please.
I'd kill for a 246, even if it leaked oil every time it got passed by grandma in a new Dodge Challenger.

 

If performance was the only item that interested me, I'd happily go buy a new car...Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, even a Vette.

However, none of those give me the feeling that I get when I drive my Mondial. I couldn't give a crap that the kid in the Focus GT can blow me away at the stop light. I've got something that I've always wanted, I like the looks, I like working on it. And, you don't see the same thing at every intersection.

Oil leaks, blemishes, whatever. I love the old girl.

Sid

 

Ken, Sell the 8 and spend a little extra $ (you've been putting in or forsee) into repairs and upgrade to a 3.2. Hand in there!

 

Lots of good points here. It's important to remember that owning a 20+ year old Italian car is not for the faint of heart. It's more like owning a horse than it is a car. You love it because it's beautiful and you'll have to spend money on it every month to keep it healthy. If you neglect it, it will die. More so than money - you really need time (infinitely more valuable). And when you have a young family, that's an even more precious commodity. I've owned a lot of toys in my life, but it's part of the reason I waited until I was 48 to buy my first Ferrari. Last kid is almost out of the house and the wife and I have a lot more time on our hands. We all get frustrated with unexpected repairs and expenses. But walking out to the garage always puts a smile on my face. When it doesn't - then it's time to sell and find something new to play with.

 

See my signature.
Alden

 

Hi Ken,
I've been fortunate and purchased a car that has been generally great. Not to say I haven't spent a pile of money on it. For me it was mostly in the services and axle boots that don't seem to want to stay together. I've been doing most of my own work. I put my car up for sale several years ago and then made the mistake of driving it and I justified keeping it as it was recently serviced and in perfect running order. Why should I pass this to someone else to enjoy for a few years trouble free. And it was mostly trouble free until the valve cover started leaking. Thus my thread "the time had not yet come" One thing led to another.

No matter how deep you go in repairs there is always something deeper that may not have a high probability of breaking but could.

For what I could sell the Mondial for there is nothing else I could get that would be as amazing, but I've had the opportunity to put 20K miles on mine over a couple years.

Having said all that, I now have a young daughter and that is keeping the funds level low. I'm pushing hard to get the car together and driving so first I can enjoy it as a car and second I can sell it if I need to. I've found it hard to get ahead on the savings account lately with the added expenses of a little one.

The future holds many depreciating Ferrari products in it. Maybe some day we'll find 360s for cheap The Ferrari California will continue to drop for several years to come. The Mondial may or may not rise out of our price range.

If you can't justify the money to make it right once and for all (could be more than car value) then it will be fussy. Sounds like you may need a new fuse board, larger fuse is a bad idea. Suspension will be tired, wheel bearings, cooling and fuel hoses unless they have been replaced. It goes on and on. For us fathers of young children I think our children would get much more in the short term from a different more reliable car. A Mustang or Miata or a property cared for Boxster. Even 911s are down below 20K.

It's not an easy decision and one I'm unwilling to commit to myself either way.

Good luck. And I'm with you on the plume of smoke from the engine. That is how mine ended up apart in my garage for the last 1.75 years.

 

wise words here. The horse analogy is totally apt.

 

Had an 83 euro QV Mondial first. It was a driver, knew id never get my money back making it into what i wanted. Sold it and bought my 3.2
Much more put together, but still its Italian!

 

My wife had a racehorse. I used to say "you put money in one end, crap comes out the other"

 

but I bet it was sure fun to watch er' race on the track...

 

Some perspective. I drove my 27 years old 328 today in San Francisco. It was freshly washed, waxed, detailed and looking like a 27 years old model that it is. It was not super fast, or super loud, or super svelte, and the AC did not work so well so I had both windows down. The compliments came at every block, every stop light, every passerby from twenty somethings to sixty somethings.

"sweet car"
"million bucks"
"nice ride"

No one threw their underwear at me though. That has never happened.

Speed isn't everything. Style is.

 

What it comes down to is, you know toy car ownership isn't cheap. And it's always best to buy the best documented, highest quality car you can afford of the model you want. But all the negativity expressed about these cars is tiresome. Expressing yourself about a bad experience is fine, but to continually bad mouth something because of that experience is really unnecessary. People who are looking for this model have undoubtly seen and heard all the negatives about the car. They are making the decision to move forward or not on it. There is a reason they want the car they want. And whatever that reason, their eyes should be wide open walking into it. If not, then that is there own fault. Anything you buy, you need to understand.......buyer beware. Now get out there and buy what you want. Enjoy it to the fullest. Life is short.