348 - When does the insane maintenance cost end? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

348 When does the insane maintenance cost end?

Discussion in '348/355' started by Ravens_Shadow, Dec 20, 2024.

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  1. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
  2. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
    63,269
    Southlake, TX
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    Rob Lay
    I have no clue what you are even talking about. It has been clear 25 years of FerrariChat, 25 years of my Ferrari ownership, 25 years of Norwoods, and Boardwalk what a 30k/major mostly includes. Basically, I have never heard anyone call a service without belts a major.
     
  3. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,631
    Every other 'major', I have every piece of rubber in the engine bay replaced.
    Anything in questionable condition, that is hard to reach with the engine in the car, is also renewed.
    I have even machined up a couple of small parts when Ferrari-tax seemed of questionable value.

    Remember, a 'major' is your opportunity to drive the car for 3-6 years without _anything_ but fluid changes.
    If you dilly-dally on what needs to be fixed/addressed, it will come back to bite you--and at a very inconvenient time.

    Pretty much just like a real race car being driven in a real race attempting to win.
     
    IvanRico, chas-3 and rob lay like this.
  4. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
    Right…as you say…”mostly includes”. That’s the thing Ferraris are not driven like Toyotas and they don’t have complete maintenance schedules and procedure for doing them. In that 25+ years and the fleet ages we learn more and do more in our majors. You can see that in the post archives on fchat. For example we talked about belt changes and almost never cam timing at the beginning of fchat. Timing for 90% was just matching lines. Later around the mid 90’s we see more posts about belt change with cam timing and Within the last 10 years more of us include fuel injector blue printing and service with major service. This evolution has occurred because we lack guidance from Ferrari and we have been figuring it out ourselves as needed.
     
  5. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    Dec 1, 2000
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    I disagree, no different than any other car. It started with well defined guidance from the factory as I posted. Otherwise Ferrari is only different because people care and have the funds to do all the right things after 35 years. Your original point is invalid.
     
  6. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
    Ferraris are different from other cars like Toyotas because maintenance occurs based on mileage milestones that are usually attained. On the other hand 95% of Ferraris never get the miles they time out. That’s how you get the controversy in the many belts threads of how many years until you have change belts. You can have a 70k mile 355 from 1996 and that’s a high mile car going on average 2500 per year!
     
    ChoonHound likes this.
  7. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    There's no controversy. Unlike what you claim Ferrari gave very prescribed maintenance. If they lacked anything, it was the foresight that their engines wouldn't gain miles as fast.

    There is no question usage puts wear on rubber. There is no question age puts wear on rubber. Just look at your lap times fresh rubber vs. old.
     
  8. ChoonHound

    ChoonHound Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    May 13, 2022
    2,069
    Saint Michaels, MD
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    Lucas
    I’ve spent a ton on maintenance and restoration over the past 36 months as I shared with you privately. I would say there are four factors at play, in order:

    1) deferred maintenance
    2) years sitting
    3) 30+ year old components aging out
    4) my perfectionism

    I could have bought a 488, but I wanted a 348 Spider and I wanted it perfect.
     
    MAD828 likes this.
  9. Timmo

    Timmo Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2017
    637
    Continental Europe
    The only reason these cars turn to lemons is because owners tend to do as little maintenance as possible between two engine out services, which necessarily turn out stupidly precisely because off all the little things that could have been fixed in between and allowed the keep the car in regular use, which is if paramount importance to keep it reliable. This is a vicious circle that can only turn into a virtuous circle if the cars are first driven regularly and then if the issues are fixed just as they come, rather than keep the cars rotting in a garage and get the financial time bomb to explode each time the engine out service bill is handed over. I can't see of another way to "devermin" these cars.
     
    redwedge likes this.
  10. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
    It's more than that. The best cars aren't just the best maintained with the thickest set of repair receipts. The best cars have well thought out service done with attention to detail. For example in timing your volvo the manual tells you to line up the marks and you are done. There was a time 95% of Ferrari guys just lined up the marks. Every thread on Fchat that talks about cam locks (and there is still a current thread on cam locks here right now) is lining up marks and often their own nail polish marks not even the ferrari marks on the cams! A small number of people are cam time with degree wheel everytime. Anyone who has used a degree wheel knows how easy it is to be "off the marks." There was a time during major services no thought was given to fuel injectors. Some would add a can of techron. The 348 was fraught with electrical gremlins before it left the factory. We used stablant-22 to clean electrical connectors in the 90's. Mixture control is important! How do we ensure the possibility of engineered mixture control? That's how we got beyond techron and into blue printing and servicing fuel injectors and re-pinning of electrical connectors. That's how the aftermarket took what Montezemolo called the worst car to come out of Maranello and make it the reliable 348 it is today. The OP's car can be saved. It just needs to get sorted from antenna to window motor.
     
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  11. Ravens_Shadow

    Ravens_Shadow Karting

    Jul 18, 2022
    56
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    Full Name:
    Nick Seavert
    Fumbled around seeing if anyone wanted to buy the car and after trying to sell it for over a month I sat down with it in my garage. Told it that I was going to take it with me to North Carolina and keep her forever even if she doesn't run because its my trophy. I'll master this car if its the last thing I do and I'll just drop the pennies into it as I have the time and the capital to do so. I can get a porsche 997 and it may drive better, but it doesn't sound as good as this does. I can get an Super-lite Coupe component car to build, but then it doesn't carry the ferrari badge. I can sell this car and may end up regretting it because it's my first supercar and I am very emotionally attached to her!

    The car is old, maintenance was indefinitely deferred by previous owners and i'm picking up the slack on that. Will get a lift in my new houses's garage and do what I gotta do. With that said.. time to make a new thread about a new problem :)
     
    rob lay likes this.
  12. redwedge

    redwedge Formula Junior

    Sep 30, 2012
    436
    London
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    Steve C
    I would get those torn boots looked at ASAP. Leaky header blowing hot exhaust gas onto them? That can get expensive very quickly.
     
  13. rob lay

    rob lay Administrator
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    These cars were expensive to maintain in the first place. The increase in cost for parts has outpaced inflation. The increase in hourly rates has outpaced inflation. There is nothing on the horizon that will change this.

    I see it with my friends and their "classic" Ferraris, we're going to see more of these cars getting maintenance caught up, driven 3-5 years, and then sitting another 10-15 years before getting maintenance caught up again. A significant % of those cars will never get the maintenance caught up and just sold. A significant % of those cars will get the belts done, but not the $5-20k of other stuff that needs work too.
     
  14. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,538
    socal
    Wow! There are lemons that just seem cursed. That's way beyond even 355 ownership with engine rebuild. Considering the cost of the car you could have a very nice 430 with money left over to take you wife on a nice vacation.
     
  15. User-C3

    User-C3 Karting

    Aug 29, 2018
    234
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Trevor
    To very bluntly and directly answer your question in a way that I dont believe I saw yet, and for most who own a ferrari will disagree with because of paper trail is to do the work yourself. The parts cost is what it is and this forum is a great source of part replacement alternatives that will be much cheaper, but when you pay someone to work on a Ferrari you are paying top dollar.
    I bought mine to drive, to enjoy, and for the experience. I am not saving my car for the next guy but making it mine.
     
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  16. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    Nov 29, 2001
    13,379
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    What do you mean? We all agree that DIY is the way to own an old Ferrari.
     
  17. User-C3

    User-C3 Karting

    Aug 29, 2018
    234
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    Trevor
    exactly, diy as much as possible. When you dont need to pay for the hours, the parts purchasing becomes much more tolerable.
     
  18. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    6,348
    I have a similar era car (Lamborghini Diablo) that has required $70k in maintenance over an 11 year span (58% of what I paid). So there have been some trying times. But I never got to the point you seem to be at now. I would recommend you sell it for whatever you can get and resolve to get something else (newer) later, as I feel it will always be a mile until breakdown in your mind....not a good place to be, can't enjoy a car in those terms.
     
  19. Ravens_Shadow

    Ravens_Shadow Karting

    Jul 18, 2022
    56
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    Full Name:
    Nick Seavert
    After DIYing some long standing problems for pennies on the dollar by myself I have some renewed confidence and the car is running pretty good at the moment. I'm beginning to turn a new page and just love it for what it is and not center my life around it as odd as that may sound. We'll see what 2025 has to offer with it and I'll do my best to enjoy it.
     
    Aeroflop, User-C3, ShineKen and 2 others like this.

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