Wheels Clarification | FerrariChat

Wheels Clarification

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by Mondial 1985, Jan 24, 2014.

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  1. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    344
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    So the stock 5 spoke Mondial 308 wheels have the 5 X 108 bolt pattern and if I'm reading the posts correctly, the "offset" for them is 40mm? I understand that the metric rims translate into slightly over 15" That's why a 15" and a 16" tyre cannot be used. I would like to find a wheel that's as close to the original Mondi wheel (not in appearance) as possible. Say, a wheel that will accept a 16" tyre that would simply be a "bolt and go" sortta thing. Something that wouldn't require spacers, etc... Can anyone give me those specs? I've heard that 308/328 wheels won't fit but 348 wheels bolt right on. Is that correct?
    Thanks
     
  2. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jun 20, 2008
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    #2 afterburner, Jan 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    No guarantee, but the following should cars have the same bolt pattern:

    Alfa Romeo 159, 166
    Citroen C6
    Ford Connect 2003 -on, 2003+C-max, Mondeo 00-on, Windstar
    Jaguar S-type Facelift (02-), S-type CCX(-02), X-type
    Lancia Kappa, Thesis
    Peugeot 407, 605 (00-), 607 (00-)
    Renault Avantime, Espace IV (02-), Laguna 5 holes (97-)
    Volvo 900 series, C70, C90, S60, S70, S80, S90

    The original Mondial suspension (the t has a different geometry if I am not mistaken) had a 51mm offset, here the metric wheel:
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  3. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    No, 51mm
     
  4. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    The TRX wheels are 390mm, 16" are 406mm. Plus the tire/rim edge interface section is totally different.
     
  5. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Wrong offset.
     
  6. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    I don't think so. You better check with someone that has a set on your year of Mondial to verify the offsets and bolt lengths for the front and rear needed. 348 wheels are 17", you might have to adjust your speedo depending on the tire you will mount.
     
  7. porphy

    porphy Formula 3
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    Dec 9, 2009
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    LouisvilleKY/Switzld
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    Randall Gatz
    You need a 348 lug bolt set to put 348 wheels on the Mondial. The stock bolts from the 16" rims are too short for the 17" 348 rims. There are different bolt lengths for front and back. Lots of info on here about that difference.
     
  8. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    344
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    OK, the information on the back of the spokes on my wheels are: "Speedline" and under that, "SL 059/A". Another spoke reads, "11727" and directly under that, "E = 53,5". Another spoke reads "6AISi7". And one spoke says, "Made In Italy". Go figure. So, What I need to look for is a wheel with a 5 X 108 bolt pattern and a 51mm offset that'll take a 16" tyre.
     
  9. ozmondy

    ozmondy Formula Junior

    Oct 30, 2013
    307
    N.T, Australia
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    Peter
    "So, What I need to look for is a wheel with a 5 X 108 bolt pattern and a 51mm offset that'll take a 16" tyre. "

    Yep that's it in one.

    I have 17" on mine but need a concentric hub ring as the center bore is 63.1 mm if I am not mistaken.

    Peter
     
  10. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    That is the manufacturer, located near Venice in Italy.

    S/L means Speedline, the 059/A is their internal material code if I remember correctly; A meaning Aluminium. The also use other materials to make rims.

    S/L part number

    Offset 53.5mm

    Material code if I remember correctly.

    Country of manufacturing; I have seen their production line a few times.

    5 holes on a 108mm diameter.
     
  11. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    344
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    Got it! In order for a direct "bolt on", and if I wanted to use 16" tyres (I'd like a little higher profile than what I think a 17" tyre would give), I want a 5 X 108 bolt pattern with a 53.5mm offset. Then I'd determine the rim width based on the tyre I choose (like if I wanted a 8 1/2" - 9 1/2" wide tyre, I'd pick a wheel width with the afore mentioned data.
    You guys are absolutely the best. I just hope that at some time I can become expertise enough on some part of the Mondial where I can help out others, instead of always asking for help.
     
  12. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Mark, correct. When you go over spec with the rim width, check for interference, especially in the front at full lock.
    Also make sure that the bolts are the correct length, front and rear. Enough thread inside the hub, but not touching in the back so you can get the correct torque.
    And I agree on the higher aspect ratio of the tire for the Mondial. Actually, I think the TRX clearly LOOKS best on the car. The wheel arches were designed for that sidewall hight and section.
     
  13. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
    1,096
    PB County, Florida
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    Jerry
    If you get a wider wheel, it will affect the proper offset. A one inch wider wheel, for example, will need an offset of about 41mm (53.5 minus 12.7mm [1/2 of 1 inch, which is 25.4mm]).

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  14. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Jerry, could you elaborate please? Offset and rim width are totally independent, by definition.
     
  15. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    344
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    Well, I'm gonna get a tyre that's as close to the original (in size) as I can, not only for aesthetics, but also to insure there's no rubbing, lock to lock. When looking at rims, I'll take a bolt with me, too.
     
  16. gsfent

    gsfent Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2009
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    Jerry
    Sure.

    You presume that 1/2 of the width increase will be on the inside of the centerline of the wheel and 1/2 on the outside.

    If you want the inside of the wheel to be in the same place in relation to the body, and it is one inch wider, than it will be 1/2 inch closer to the inside if no adjustment to offset. Stated another way, if the inside of the wheel is X inches from the body, a 1 inch wider wheel will be 1/2 inch closer to the body if both wheels have the same offset.

    Presumably the engineers had a reason for the offset. That is not to say a wider wheel with the same offset as the narrower wheel will not fit, but the centerline will be moved. In the rear it is less of an issue, in the front it may throw the scrub radius off a bit.

    Too wide of a wheel may cause rubbing on the outside also, but a 1 inch increase should be fine on most cars without concern.

    Regards,
    Jerry
     
  17. MvT

    MvT F1 Rookie

    May 25, 2013
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    Tijn
    I had 225/45 17 on the front and 275/40 17 on the rear and I had no scrubbing, although they were close to I think. They actually drive better then the original Mondial wheels I have currently installed. Not sure about the offset though.
     
  18. Mondial 1985

    Mondial 1985 Formula Junior

    Jun 13, 2012
    344
    Greenville, SC
    Full Name:
    Mark Alan Day
    I'm just looking for a "normal" (non metric) wheel that will get me as close to the original Michelins as possible (and as close to the original wheel specs). I really don't want to change anything, all I want is a wheel that's not gonna take a $700.00 tyre.
     
  19. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
    5,953
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    Hank Garfield
    Mark, you're thinking straight. We'll work on that, based on clarification of your desires.

    Cheers mate,

    Hank
     
  20. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    #20 afterburner, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2014
    The funny thing is that imperial (inches for their diameter) tyre widths are measured in mm...

    The original TRX rim was 390x160 390x180mm, which is 15.5x6.2" and 15.5"x7".
    If you measure the tread width of the TRX tire between the marks used for homologation, you will find 205mm and 225mm.

    For the 16" version, Ferrari used 205s on 7" in the front, and 225s on 8" in the rear.

    Additionally, they changed
    - the offset from 51mm to 53.5mm (in the front and the rear? - could you check pls?)
    - increased camber in the front from -30' in the front to -40' average
    - increased toe-in from 2mm to 2.5mm average (probably to compensate for the increased offset)
    - increased camber in the rear from -1°30' to -1°40' average

    So, when you go from metric to imperial, you should also adjust your suspension settings...
     
  21. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Yes, otherwise you are talking about a change of offset additional to the change of width. If you change the offset, you change the steering characteristics. It usually is compensated by a change in toe-in.

    Thanks Jerry; all clear.
     
  22. porphy

    porphy Formula 3
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    Dec 9, 2009
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    Randall Gatz
    So am I right in thinking that the reason the 348 wheels fit Mondial T's without geometry mods is that because they are wider AND they have a slightly increased offset this compensates for the increased width?? Or should I also think about increasing the toe-in by 0.5mm??
     
  23. afterburner

    afterburner F1 Rookie
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    Randall, what are the offsets of the t's front and rear wheels?
    And what are the offsets of the 348 wheels?
     
  24. porphy

    porphy Formula 3
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    The rear wheels of the early 348's are 68.05mm. That's all I have for the moment. I'll get the front 348 and Mondial T offsets tomorrow.
     
  25. porphy

    porphy Formula 3
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    Dec 9, 2009
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    Front wheels on the early 348 wheels offset is 49. Front wheels on the Mondial T are 38.3. I cannot get to my back wheels just yet. Sorry. Get back to you asap.
     

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